Who made God?

[Pegg]

If time is a human creation then why can't it be applied anywhere? In other words, why are you exempting God?

if we could go to the realm where God exists, then perhaps we could apply it there

but we cant go to where ever it is that God resides, we can't even begin to imagine what it is like, let alone create a timeline for what has taken place there.

 

[Thief]

Wow.
Interesting how you have already forgotten your mantra..
Faith requires no proof.
Or is that only when it is YOUR faith?


It is faith of which I talk.
Please pay attention.


And I STILL choose to dismiss the god you paint as nothing more than fanciful hallucinations of a delusional mind.


I am not the least bit interested in your false dichotomy.

Nothing here but empty retort and personal attack.....
maybe you should be reported.

 

[Thief]

On the contrary! I'm quite into the game. You can tell by the way I played the FSM.


How is "faith" - in the way you're using the term in this thread - materially different from "my say-so"?

Are all of your opinions immune to debate, or only your opinions about God?

So which came first?
Spirit of substance....

 

[jelly]

In defending creationism, creationists will always uphold the inescapable fact that life only comes from pre-existing life. To that, evolutionists will ask the age old question, If all life comes from preexisting life, who created God?

There is a very simple answer that proves that God did not need to be created and it is found in the first law of thermodynamics.
That law provides us with a real life example of something that cannot be created or destroyed because within the universe, it is eternal.

The first law of thermodynamics observes the principle of conservation of energy. Energy can be transformed, i.e. changed from one form to another, but cannot be created nor destroyed.

So energy is eternal. It cannot be created, nor destroyed because it always exists.Now the second law of thermodynamics tells us that energy is eternal within a closed system. Some will argue that the universe itself is the closed system and that is why the energy is eternal.
However, the universe did not always exist, and considering that the closed system cannot be the 'source' of the energy, as the first law states, then the energy must have come from 'outside' the universe. So where did the energy come from in the first place?


Romans 1:19-20 because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable

Jermiah 10:12 He is the Maker of the earth by his power

Isaiah 40:28 Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary


So if someone asks you 'who made God', tell them to consider the scientific evidence as found in the first law of thermodynamics.

if god has a sense of humor then I might believe you that god exists.

 

[PolyHedral]

So which came first?
Spirit of substance....

Spirit is an illusion. Realty is unimaginably more complicated.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

i think it can be said because from our perspective (and the perspective of all people who believe God is the creator) the physical universe is one of his creations... so he cannot exist within it, otherwise he could not say of himself that he is eternal

Wouldn't this mean that God never interacts with humanity? I didn't figure you were a deist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So which came first?
Spirit of substance....

I told you: spaghetti.

 

[idav]

Wouldn't this mean that God never interacts with humanity? I didn't figure you were a deist.

Christians are waiting for god to come back and get this show back on the road. Until god finally decides to show back up they are deist and many of them claim that miracles don't happen anymore cause we have fallen further which only makes them that much more deist.

 

[camanintx]

if we could go to the realm where God exists, then perhaps we could apply it there

but we cant go to where ever it is that God resides, we can't even begin to imagine what it is like, let alone create a timeline for what has taken place there.

Except for the 144,000 people who will gain entrance to the Kingdom of God.

Sorry, but if you define time as simply the distance between two events, then there is no restriction on where those events must occur.

 

[Thief]

Spirit is an illusion. Realty is unimaginably more complicated.

None the less....

If substance first....what then is the impetus?

'Self' starting motion?....substance just goes....'bang'.....?

And then we appear as cognitive.
And no explanation (theory) for that?

How about theology?.....plenty of ideas there!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sententia]

None the less....

If substance first....what then is the impetus?

'Self' starting motion?....substance just goes....'bang'.....?

And then we appear as cognitive.
And no explanation (theory) for that?

How about theology?.....plenty of ideas there!!!!!!!!!!

Spirit has always been and is what creates all substance.

Substance can not create itself
Spirit can not create itself.

How could there be any substance without spirit? Its such a simple idea. Why do people doubt the spirit so? Look at all the earthquakes and wars going on today. Look at the tsunamis and catastrophes. Clearly the last days are at hand yet people still turn away from the spirit.

Logically we know substance can't create itself. We can look with our own eyes and see the end of days at hand. There is a war coming and whose side are we going to be on? Spirit clearly.

I see you might doubt this... but consider... if you choose to deny spirit then you have made your bed and must lie in it. No matter if you are right or wrong it doesn't matter: Only hell can await. Hell. "H" "E" Double toothpicks. A lake of fire and guaranteed eternal suffering.

But wait...

If you choose to embrace spirit then consider what happens if you're right? Heaven! Life of some kind forever. If you turn out to be wrong well then some form of hell depending on the flavor of heaven you picked but what is this ultimate reward? What is heaven?

You can choose! There are 1000's of religions and all kinds of heaven's to choose from. Its so clear that a chance of being right is better then a guarantee of being wrong.

But you have to act quickly. Supplies are not limited but your time to get in on this deal is unfortunately short. The times ahead are troubled. There is much you need to know and do. Comes to your senses and embrace spirit.

 

[Otherright]

One of my favorite Koans was the one where the child asks the mother, "Who created us?" She replies, "God." Then the child asks, "Who created God?" She replies, "We did."

 

[Otherright]

Spirit has always been and is what creates all substance.

Substance can not create itself
Spirit can not create itself.

How could there be any substance without spirit? Its such a simple idea. Why do people doubt the spirit so? Look at all the earthquakes and wars going on today. Look at the tsunamis and catastrophes. Clearly the last days are at hand yet people still turn away from the spirit.

Logically we know substance can't create itself. We can look with our own eyes and see the end of days at hand. There is a war coming and whose side are we going to be on? Spirit clearly.

I see you might doubt this... but consider... if you choose to deny spirit then you have made your bed and must lie in it. No matter if you are right or wrong it doesn't matter: Only hell can await. Hell. "H" "E" Double toothpicks. A lake of fire and guaranteed eternal suffering.

But wait...

If you choose to embrace spirit then consider what happens if you're right? Heaven! Life of some kind forever. If you turn out to be wrong well then some form of hell depending on the flavor of heaven you picked but what is this ultimate reward? What is heaven?

You can choose! There are 1000's of religions and all kinds of heaven's to choose from. Its so clear that a chance of being right is better then a guarantee of being wrong.

But you have to act quickly. Supplies are not limited but your time to get in on this deal is unfortunately short. The times ahead are troubled. There is much you need to know and do. Comes to your senses and embrace spirit.

So one should believe on the basis of fear? If your basis for belief is fear, you do not deserve it, for you will never understand it.

 

[Sententia]

So one should believe on the basis of fear? If your basis for belief is fear, you do not deserve it, for you will never understand it.

That is but one lesson trapped in the blatant sarcasm of that post. I am still waiting for people to call me on "Pascal's Wager", "How to choose the right faith?", "What created spirit?" and "What if my chosen religion doesn't mesh with your end of days fear argument?".

 

[Otherright]

That is but one lesson trapped in the blatant sarcasm of that post. I am still waiting for people to call me on "Pascal's Wager", "How to choose the right faith?", "What created spirit?" and "What if my chosen religion doesn't mesh with your end of days fear argument?".

I missed that. Show me the post, but if you want me to invalidate Pascal's Wager, I can do that easily.

 

[Sententia]

I missed that. Show me the post, but if you want me to invalidate Pascal's Wager, I can do that easily.

It was in the post you replied to... I tried to mask it... here ya go:

I see you might doubt this... but consider... if you choose to deny spirit then you have made your bed and must lie in it. No matter if you are right or wrong it doesn't matter: Only hell can await. Hell. "H" "E" Double toothpicks. A lake of fire and guaranteed eternal suffering.

But wait...
If you choose to embrace spirit then consider what happens if you're right? Heaven! Life of some kind forever. If you turn out to be wrong well then some form of hell depending on the flavor of heaven you picked but what is this ultimate reward? What is heaven?

You can choose! There are 1000's of religions and all kinds of heaven's to choose from. Its so clear that a chance of being right is better then a guarantee of being wrong.

 

[Otherright]

It was in the post you replied to... I tried to mask it... here ya go:

Hell, in the Judeo-Christian concept was created by Christians. It does not exist before Christianity.

Pascal's Wager can be defeated by the argument from inconsistent revelations saying that since there have been many religions throughout history, and therefore many conceptions of gods, some assert that all of them need to be factored into the wager. It is also defeated by the argument from inauthentic belief.

 

[Otherright]

As far as how to choose the right path will be up to the actor. What you have to know going in is that the ideology you choose will be rife with myth.

 

[McBell]

Nothing here but empty retort and personal attack.....
maybe you should be reported.

Ah, back to the "empty retort" mantra.

Well, at least you are consistent...

 

[Thief]

Ah, back to the "empty retort" mantra.

Well, at least you are consistent...

Same to you.

So answer the question....Spirit first.....or substance....

oh that's right.....you've got nothing but empty retort.