Who Or What Is Christian?

[Elihoenai]

Fascinating. And I thought *I* was a fan. At least you are consistent. Thank you for your direct answer.

Isaiah 64:6

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


You said that The Lord of the Rings Inspired you to do Good. Elohim/God told me to tell you to Remember that the Good/Righteousness of this World is Filthy Rags. There is Far Superior Righteousness/Good taught in the Holy Hebrew Scriptures compared to that taught in The Lord of the Rings. The Good of this World is Actually Evil because of Sin.

I assume that John Ronald Reuel Tolkien also Asserted that the Righteousness/Good of Man/Woman is Filthy Rags.


J. R. R. Tolkien

Religion

Tolkien's Catholicism was a significant factor in C. S. Lewis's conversion from atheism to Christianity, and it has been suggested that Tolkien was dismayed that Lewis chose to join the Church of England[94] (although there seems to be no real evidence of that[95]). He once wrote to Rayner Unwin's daughter Camilla, who wished to know the purpose of life, that it was "to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks."[96] He had a special devotion to the blessed sacrament, writing to his son Michael that in "the Blessed Sacrament ... you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves upon earth, and more than that".[T 4] He accordingly encouraged frequent reception of Holy Communion, again writing to his son Michael that "the only cure for sagging of fainting faith is Communion." He believed the Catholic Church to be true most of all because of the pride of place and the honour in which it holds the Blessed Sacrament.[T 11] In the last years of his life, Tolkien resisted the liturgical changes implemented after the Second Vatican Council, especially the use of English for the liturgy; he continued to make the responses in Latin, loudly, ignoring the rest of the congregation.

J. R. R. Tolkien - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elihoenai]

None of those. I was asking what Christ means to you. Because I think Christ means a lot of different things to a lot of different people that all call themselves Christian.

Matthew 16:13

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


Yes, Messiah/Christ means Different things to Different people. Based on what Messiah/Christ means to them they Define "Who Or What Is Christian".

Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ posed to his Disciples the All-Important Critical Question: WHOM DO MEN SAY THAT I THE SON OF MAN AM?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Tolkien's Catholicism was a significant factor in C. S. Lewis's conversion from atheism to Christianity,

It's lovely to hear all this again, and I'm glad for all the lurkers to this thread that you mentioned it.

When I was 16, I ran the Orange County chapter of the Tolkien Fellowships. Trust me, I knew the LOTR inside and out as only the most devout of fans could. I was also a member of the Mythopoeic Society, which is dedicated to the writings of Tolkien, Lewis, and Williams. I am very familiar with how Tolkien's Catholic worldview influenced the cosmology and ethics of the LOTR. I know, for example, that he placed much of his devotion to Mary into the Elves devotion to Elbereth Gilthoniel . I also know the part he played in Lewis' conversion to Christianity, and his confusion over why Lewis (as an Anglo-Catholic) didn't take that final step to Rome. He truly was a Catholic's Catholic. He taught me to see the Romanticism not only in his own faith, but in all religious faith. I may disagree with much of Tolkien's Catholic beliefs, but I greatly admire his sincerity, devotion, ethics, and creative genius.

 

[PureX]

Yes, Messiah/Christ means Different things to Different people. Based on what Messiah/Christ means to them they Define "Who Or What Is Christian".

I didn't. Not everyone thinks their understanding is the sole truth of Christ. In fact, I would guess that a lot of people recognize the universality of the Christ ideal.

Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ posed to his Disciples the All-Important Critical Question: WHOM DO MEN SAY THAT I THE SON OF MAN AM?

Exactly. Whom indeed.

 

[PureX]

Jews don't use the word Christ.

So far as I am aware, Jews do not recognize the revelation and promise of Christianity. At least not overtly.

 

[servant1]

The very idea that God wrote a sacred text is itself an interpretation.

There is 0 doubt in all creation--God inspired the words of his bible.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There is 0 doubt in all creation--God inspired the words of his bible.

This is your belief, something that you take on faith. I'm fine with faith. I'm sure it makes your life much more meaningful. But let's not confuse religious beliefs with evidence based facts.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So far as I am aware, Jews do not recognize the revelation and promise of Christianity. At least not overtly.

Correct.

 

[servant1]

This is your belief, something that you take on faith. I'm fine with faith. I'm sure it makes your life much more meaningful. But let's not confuse religious beliefs with evidence based facts.

In the book of Job, the water cycle is explained. It says the earth hangs on nothing and is a sphere( circle))))))--Many believed it rested on the back of a large turtle or elephant. Many believed the earth was flat.
In Isaiah he spoke of Cyrus( King) destroying Babylon 200 years prior to that event.
The writings of the Messiah are all throughout the OT written centuries before God sent him to earth.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In the book of Job, the water cycle is explained. It says the earth hangs on nothing and is a sphere( circle))))))--Many believed it rested on the back of a large turtle or elephant. Many believed the earth was flat.

A circle is NOT a sphere. That Job says the earth is a circle makes the author of Job factually mistaken.

In Isaiah he spoke of Cyrus( King) destroying Babylon 200 years prior to that event.

Nope. According to historians and textual critics, the prophecies in Isaiah 44-45, which mention Cyrus by name, are generally considered to have been written during or shortly before Cyrus's lifetime (around the 6th century BCE), not 200 years before his birth.

First Isaiah (Chapters 1-39): This is generally attributed to the historical prophet Isaiah, who lived in the 8th century BCE.

Second Isaiah (Chapters 40-55): This section, which includes the prophecy about Cyrus, is often thought to have been written during the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), just before or during Cyrus’s conquest of Babylon.

Third Isaiah (Chapters 56-66): Some scholars believe this part was written after the exile.

The writings of the Messiah are all throughout the OT written centuries before God sent him to earth.

Since the Messiah hasn't come yet, he has not written anything.

Which brings us back to my original point. Your belief in the Bible is based on faith, not proof.

 

[Elihoenai]

It's lovely to hear all this again, and I'm glad for all the lurkers to this thread that you mentioned it.

When I was 16, I ran the Orange County chapter of the Tolkien Fellowships. Trust me, I knew the LOTR inside and out as only the most devout of fans could. I was also a member of the Mythopoeic Society, which is dedicated to the writings of Tolkien, Lewis, and Williams. I am very familiar with how Tolkien's Catholic worldview influenced the cosmology and ethics of the LOTR. I know, for example, that he placed much of his devotion to Mary into the Elves devotion to Elbereth Gilthoniel . I also know the part he played in Lewis' conversion to Christianity, and his confusion over why Lewis (as an Anglo-Catholic) didn't take that final step to Rome. He truly was a Catholic's Catholic. He taught me to see the Romanticism not only in his own faith, but in all religious faith. I may disagree with much of Tolkien's Catholic beliefs, but I greatly admire his sincerity, devotion, ethics, and creative genius.

Elohim/God Wrote The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien is just Elohim's/God's Instrument to Deliver a Message.

The Way I Interpret Elohim's/God's Message in The Lord of the Rings is that Yeshua/Jesus/Frodo Baggins represents the Followers of Pure Good that Wars Against the Devil/Satan/Sauron the Followers of Pure Evil while Middle-Earth are the Half-Hearted Masses that Sauron Controls. Those that are Not Totally Devoted to Elohim/God are Controlled by the Satan/Devil/Sauron.

Christian Gnostics are the Followers of Pure Good while Inverted Anti-Christian Gnostics are the Followers of Pure Evil.

Fury Ending Credits

 

[Elihoenai]

I didn't. Not everyone thinks their understanding is the sole truth of Christ. In fact, I would guess that a lot of people recognize the universality of the Christ ideal.

Matthew 7:13-14

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Seeing Messiah/Christ as a Universal Ideal is an Interpretation that Asserts in the Sole Truth of Messiah/Christ. Positing that Different Interpretations are Equally Valid is Being Inclusive. I Am Christian Gnostic Asserting that Messiah/Christ is Exclusive. Only the Original Interpretation of Yeshua/Jesus Saves.


Gnosticism, the Enduring Heresy

Exactly. Whom indeed.

The 2.2 Billion Christians in Christendom Perceive Messiah/Christ as Inclusive.

 

[Elihoenai]

There is 0 doubt in all creation--God inspired the words of his bible.

To those that Know Elohim/God it is an Absolute Objective Fact that Elohim/God Inspired the Words of the Holy Scriptures/Bible while to those that do Not Know Elohim/God it is a Subjective Belief.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Elohim/God Wrote The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien is just Elohim's/God's Instrument to Deliver a Message.

No sir. As much as I adore the Lord of the Rings, it is not a divine book. Tolkien used his own religious background, his life experiences, his own culture, his own knowledge as a philologist, his own education in myth, and mostly, his own imagination to write the books. God did not dictate the text to him.

 

[servant1]

A circle is NOT a sphere. That Job says the earth is a circle makes the author of Job factually mistaken.

Nope. According to historians and textual critics, the prophecies in Isaiah 44-45, which mention Cyrus by name, are generally considered to have been written during or shortly before Cyrus's lifetime (around the 6th century BCE), not 200 years before his birth.

First Isaiah (Chapters 1-39): This is generally attributed to the historical prophet Isaiah, who lived in the 8th century BCE.

Second Isaiah (Chapters 40-55): This section, which includes the prophecy about Cyrus, is often thought to have been written during the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), just before or during Cyrus’s conquest of Babylon.

Third Isaiah (Chapters 56-66): Some scholars believe this part was written after the exile.

Since the Messiah hasn't come yet, he has not written anything.

Which brings us back to my original point. Your belief in the Bible is based on faith, not proof.

All who draw close to God, he draws close to them. Those know 100% he wrote the bible. Most versions are altered.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

All who draw close to God, he draws close to them. Those know 100% he wrote the bible. Most versions are altered.

Oh there are plenty of people who have a good relationship with God via their study of religious texts (not always yours), aspiration to become better people, prayer, worship, or any combination of those things. Christians have no monopoly on God.

 

[YoursTrue]

A circle is NOT a sphere. That Job says the earth is a circle makes the author of Job factually mistaken.

Nope. According to historians and textual critics, the prophecies in Isaiah 44-45, which mention Cyrus by name, are generally considered to have been written during or shortly before Cyrus's lifetime (around the 6th century BCE), not 200 years before his birth.

First Isaiah (Chapters 1-39): This is generally attributed to the historical prophet Isaiah, who lived in the 8th century BCE.

Second Isaiah (Chapters 40-55): This section, which includes the prophecy about Cyrus, is often thought to have been written during the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), just before or during Cyrus’s conquest of Babylon.

Third Isaiah (Chapters 56-66): Some scholars believe this part was written after the exile.

Since the Messiah hasn't come yet, he has not written anything.

Which brings us back to my original point. Your belief in the Bible is based on faith, not proof.

I realize you're probably not reading my posts, but your belief is surely based on faith, not proof. If, in fact, it is based on faith, because don't you, as well as many others here that are not Jewish, believe the Bible (either testament) is a pack of myths.

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh there are plenty of people who have a good relationship with God via their study of religious texts (not always yours), aspiration to become better people, prayer, worship, or any combination of those things. Christians have no monopoly on God.

How would a person know what is good? Even if someone were to quote the Bible, why would a person who believes the Bible is packed with myths think anything about morals written in the scriptures is true. What one person considers good, another may consider to be not so good.

 

[servant1]

Oh there are plenty of people who have a good relationship with God via their study of religious texts (not always yours), aspiration to become better people, prayer, worship, or any combination of those things. Christians have no monopoly on God.

they all try that. But God is clear about false god worship.