Who understands and can explain the meaning of Romans 9:3-4?

[Ellen Brown]

Romans 9:3 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary - Bible Tools
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/28159/eVerseID/28159
Romans 9:3 Paul felt bitter disappointment that the great majority of his fellow Jews were rejecting Christ . Not only was he willing to give his physical life for them, but he would have actually forfeited his eternal life in God's Kingdom, if necessary, to ensure the widespread conversion of the Jews.

That sounds reasonable.

I have an agnostic friend who feels that Christianity was not the intended result of Jesus' visit. And there is such extreme variation in Christian belief that I sometimes wonder if we worship the same God? Eastern Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Lutheranism, Baptists, Mormons, and many others. It all feels too crazy for me.

I'm not sure why the dietary exclusions came up? Even today, if I consume Pork, I feel guilty. The Pork part is understandable because at that time, these animals were shot through with disease, partly because Pigs eat their own excrement. These days, perhaps Pork is more safe?

I'm not about to join Jews for Jesus or anything like that.

 

[Amikam Israel]

"Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia" (Acts 21:39 KJV)

"I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Romans 11:1 KJV)

Paul clearly states in the verses above that he was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. But he also said that he was a Jew, that is, of Judah, which like Benjamin was one of the twelve tribes of Israel (see Children of Jacob ).

There were two kingdoms in Israel back in that day. Southern Kingdom and Northern Kingdom. The southern Kingdom was the Kingdom of Judah where Paul resided in the city of Cicilia , but his tribe is still Benjamin as he already clarified. So he's a Jew by locality, not by lineage.

 

[Amikam Israel]

With genetic sampling.

Is there anywhere you are going with this?

You have not answered my question. But I'll help you out a bit. The people living in the state of Israel established in 1948 by the United Nations ... are they who you are referring to as the "Jews", the remnant of Israel? I'm just asking because Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9 warns about something that maybe you weren't aware of. Also Titus 1:14. Check that as well.

 

[Amikam Israel]

That sounds reasonable.

I have an agnostic friend who feels that Christianity was not the intended result of Jesus' visit. And there is such extreme variation in Christian belief that I sometimes wonder if we worship the same God? Eastern Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Lutheranism, Baptists, Mormons, and many others. It all feels too crazy for me.

I'm not sure why the dietary exclusions came up? Even today, if I consume Pork, I feel guilty. The Pork part is understandable because at that time, these animals were shot through with disease, partly because Pigs eat their own excrement. These days, perhaps Pork is more safe?

I'm not about to join Jews for Jesus or anything like that.

I have a few verses for you: Leviticus 11:2-8, Leviticus 22:31, John 14:15

Notice John 14:15 has the same theme as Leviticus 22:31.

 

[sooda]

There were two kingdoms in Israel back in that day. Southern Kingdom and Northern Kingdom. The southern Kingdom was the Kingdom of Judah where Paul resided in the city of Cicilia , but his tribe is still Benjamin as he already clarified. So he's a Jew by locality, not by blood.

You mean Cicilia in Turkey?

 

[74x12]

Romans 9:3-4 states:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

He would rather himself be accursed (and damned) if it meant the Hebrew nation would be somehow saved by it. Unfortunately, he explains that they are cut off from Christ; because they reject the new Covenant in the blood of Jesus.

 

[Rival]

You have not answered my question. But I'll help you out a bit. The people living in the state of Israel established in 1948 by the United Nations ... are they who you are referring to as the "Jews", the remnant of Israel? I'm just asking because Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9 warns about something that maybe you weren't aware of. Also Titus 1:14. Check that as well.

I do not believe in those texts. I do not believe in any of the Greek writings.

 

[Amikam Israel]

You mean Cicilia in Turkey?

I was citing this Syria Palaestina - Wikipedia. I could have mis-interpreted exactly where Paul resided. Nevertheless, at one point the Kingdom of Judah housed three tribes, Judah, Benjamin and Levi so when Paul referred to himself as a Jew, it is because he is identifying himself as a member of the House of Judah.

 

[Amikam Israel]

I do not believe in those texts. I do not believe in any of the Greek writings.

You don't believe in the Bible, but you believe that the United Nations restored Israel and that the people living there who were once scattered are the correct people? Let me ask you this: Was the supposed genetic sampling done before or after allowing the people who claim to be Jews settle in the land?

 

[Amikam Israel]

He would rather himself be accursed (and damned) if it meant the Hebrew nation would be somehow saved by it. Unfortunately, he explains that they are cut off from Christ; because they reject the new Covenant in the blood of Jesus.

Why did you not interpret verse four as well?

 

[Ellen Brown]

I have a few verses for you: Leviticus 11:2-8, Leviticus 22:31, John 14:15

Notice John 14:15 has the same theme as Leviticus 22:31.

I am familiar with both Christian and Muslim scripture. Yes, eating a BLT is disobedience on my part, and I seldom do it. The Christians have this 'thing' where they are given permission to eat whatever. Acts 10:13. They rationalize that to include Pork, IMHO. Just looking at Wiki, apparently Pork is the most widely consumed meat worldwide. After reading what it says, perhaps it is time for more obedience on my part.

From being around Pigs as a child, I sometimes wonder if they are sentient? Is it like cannibalism?

 

[Rival]

You don't believe in the Bible, but you believe that the United Nations restored Israel and that the people living there who were once scattered are the correct people? Let me ask you this: Was the supposed genetic sampling done before or after allowing the people who claim to be Jews settle in the land?

I believe in the Tanakh. I believe as Jews believe.

So, you can either tell me what your problem with Jews is or I'm pretty much done here.

 

[Amikam Israel]

I believe in the Tanakh. I believe as Jews believe.

So, you can either tell me what your problem with Jews is or I'm pretty much done here.

How come you didn't answer my question? Was the genetic sampling done before allowing the people to settle into the land?

 

[sooda]

I was citing this Syria Palaestina - Wikipedia. I could have mis-interpreted exactly where Paul resided. Nevertheless, at one point the Kingdom of Judah housed three tribes, Judah, Benjamin and Levi so when Paul referred to himself as a Jew, it is because he is identifying himself as a member of the House of Judah.

Paul was a Jew and a Roman citizen who lived in Tarsus in Cicilia which is in Turkey.

The Jews were a mess in the first century.. Some hated the Romans.. others colluded with the Romans and were considered apostates. Jews who lived near and around Galilee and the Decapolis were more prosperous, spoke Greek and were considered Hellenized traitors.

Once you unscramble the history from about 200 BC to 150 AD it all begins to make more sense.

 

[Rival]

How come you didn't answer my question? Was the genetic sampling done before allowing the people to settle into the land?

Because you have an agenda, by using phrases like 'people who claim to be Jews' and going on about the UN and the State of Israel, I want to know what is in your mind. You seem to believe that the Jewish people are somehow not the Jewish people, and I'm not kowtowing to these rubbish ideas. Tell me from which position you come.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Romans 9:3-4 states:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Joseph Smith said it was,

3 For once I could have wished that myself were accursed from Christ,
for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

 

[Amikam Israel]

Because you have an agenda, by using phrases like 'people who claim to be Jews' and going on about the UN and the State of Israel, I want to know what is in your mind. You seem to believe that the Jewish people are somehow not the Jewish people, and I'm not kowtowing to these rubbish ideas. Tell me from which position you come.

You're the one who said that genetic sampling was used to trace the lineage of the Jewish people. I asked if it was done before allowing the people to possess the land? You still have provided no response to this.

 

[Amikam Israel]

Paul was a Jew and a Roman citizen who lived in Tarsus in Cicilia which is in Turkey.

The Jews were a mess in the first century.. Some hated the Romans.. others colluded with the Romans and were considered apostates. Jews who lived near and around Galilee and the Decapolis were more prosperous, spoke Greek and were considered Hellenized traitors.

Once you unscramble the history from about 200 BC to 150 AD it all begins to make more sense.

My point is Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, not the tribe of Judah. I explained why he called himself Jew. He's saying that he's from the House of Judah. The house of Judah consists of the three tribes (Judah, Benjamin, Levi).

 

[Rival]

You're the one who said that genetic sampling was used to trace the lineage of the Jewish people. I asked if it was done before allowing the people to possess the land? You still have provided no response to this.

So you're not going to tell me what your position on this is. Alright.

(By the way, if for some reason you really are interested The population genetics of the Jewish people)

 

[Wandering Monk]

This is the correct understanding of Romans 9:3-4: Paul is saying that he wishes that he could sacrifice himself, his right to Christ's kingdom, for the sake of his brethren, The Israelites who were adopted by God of Israel to be his chosen people (Deuteronomy 7:6). Witnessing God's glory belongs to the Israelites (Exodus 24:17). The covenants of God of Israel belong to the Israelites (Deuteronomy 29:1) and (Hebrews 8:10). The laws of God of Israel were given to the Israelites because they belong to the Israelites (Leviticus 26:46). The service of God of Israel through the keeping his laws, statutes, and commandments belong to the Israelites (Exodus 25:2&8) (Deuternomy 4:1). The promises (Salvation, Repentance, and Forgiveness of Sins, and Kingdom of Heaven) belong to the Israelites (Isaiah 45:17), (Romans 10:1), (Jeremiah 23:6), (Romans 9:27), (Romans 11:26), (Acts 5:31) , (Acts 13:24) , (Revelation 21:12). Paul is emphasizing that all these things belong to Israel not any other nation. Why is that gobbledygook to you?

I guess he thinks he is a 'little Christ' or something.