Who understands and can explain the meaning of Romans 9:3-4?

[Jeremiah Ames]

And WHO are the Israelites today? And what were the promises?

There are plenty of Israelites today, but I doubt there are many living in the patch of sand in the Middle East that is called Israel.

 

[Wandering Monk]

So you're a Christian pretending to be a Jew. Got it.

If he wasn't being so enigmatic, it would be easier to have a decent debate.

 

[Amikam Israel]

This is rubbish. And with it, I'm done.

Sure it is rubbish to you, but it is clear what the Bible says.

The Christians?

Given that this is in the New Testament...

If the israelites are Christians, then why does the bible go through all of the trouble to explain the lineage from Adam to Christ? I suppose it does not matter if you are Israel or not by lineage and where does the Bible say that? Where does the bible even say that Israelites and Christians?

 

[Wandering Monk]

I have no idea what verse 3 is saying, but verse 4 appears to be Paul saying that his brethren are the Israelites/Jewish people, with whom the covenant was made.

I think Paul was saying the he wished he could be accursed (like Christ was) in order to save his people Israel (like Christ wanted to do.)

 

[Kenny]

Romans 9:3-4 states:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

To me it sounds like he is interceding for his countrymen with great desire that they would know Jesus Christ.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Sure it is rubbish to you, but it is clear what the Bible says.

If the israelites are Christians, then why does the bible go through all of the trouble to explain the lineage from Adam to Christ? I suppose it does not matter if you are Israel or not by lineage and where does the Bible say that? Where does the bible even say that Israelites and Christians?

That was about Christ's lineage... anyone can be a follower of Christ. That I'm pretty sure is the mainstream position.

 

[Amikam Israel]

Yeah, I think we all need to get familiar with the passage that first describes the New Covenant and its better promises: Jeremiah 31 thru 34.

Yes, particularly Jeremiah 31:1 which states:

Jeremiah 31:1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.

And Jeremiah 31:31

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Who are the neighbors verse 34 is a continuation of verse 33 which is talking about Israel. It means that no longer will people like Paul have to go around teaching the remnant of Israel to repent because Israel will already know the law and no such thing will need to be done anymore. Paul was not preaching to any other nation. He was preaching to the remnant of Israel. Paul was preaching to his brethren. Re-read Romans 9:3-4:

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Paul was never preaching to Christians. He was preaching to his own people.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Romans 9:3-4 states:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

It means there can be both joy and sorrow in the Christian life

Paul just wrote all things work for good for those who love God and nothing can separate
us form God. he has deep joy

At the same time he has deep sorrow that his fellow Jews by and large do not experience this love and are in a crisis of judgement as are many in the world

Additionally it suggests one can be physically from Abraham's lineage and yet lost. Ishmael and Essau come to mind as examples.

 

[Amikam Israel]

That was about Christ's lineage... anyone can be a follower of Christ. That I'm pretty sure is the mainstream position.

No, that's the Christian perspective. Christians are not Israelites. Who was Jesus and Paul preaching to?

 

[Amikam Israel]

It means there can be both joy and sorrow in the Christian life

Paul just wrote all things work for good for those who love God and nothing can separate
us form God. he has deep joy

At the same time he has deep sorrow that his fellow Jews by and large do not experience this love and are in a crisis of judgement as are many in the world

Additionally it suggests one can be physically from Abraham's lineage and yet lost. Ishmael and Essau come to mind as examples.

And who is the God that is to be loved?

 

[Amikam Israel]

There are plenty of Israelites today, but I doubt there are many living in the patch of sand in the Middle East that is called Israel.

But are the Israelites Christians? That is what needs to be clarified because Romans 9:3-4 clearly state that the laws, covenants and promises pertain to the Israelites, not any other nation and not Christians.

 

[Wandering Monk]

But are the Israelites Christians? That is what needs to be clarified because Romans 9:3-4 clearly state that the laws, covenants and promises pertain to the Israelites, not any other nation and not Christians.

What doe you mean when you call your religion 'Israelite' on your profile?

 

[Amikam Israel]

Conversion in the day had more national meaning than religious. I think Paul has this in mind when he says Christians become part of the commonwealth of Israel. This has decidedly political overtones.

When did Paul ever say this? Show me the script.

 

[Amikam Israel]

What doe you mean when you call your religion 'Israelite' on your profile?

I was am stating who I am, but it has nothing to do with religion. They give me the option to put a religion, but I defy that by stating who I am. Of course Israelite is not a religion because the bible has nothing to do with religion. The Bible is all about the history, traditions, laws, teachings, covenants and promises of a particular people. The Bible was never a religion for people to believe in. It was a book that is of, by, and for the Israelites.

 

[Amikam Israel]

The Christians?

Given that this is in the New Testament...

The Christians are Israelites? Where does the bible say this? I'll wait

 

[robocop (actually)]

The Christians are Israelites? Where does the bible say this? I'll wait

Maybe Jesus implied this when he said out of stones could God raise up seed of Abraham.

 

[Amikam Israel]

Maybe Jesus implied this when he said out of stones could God raise up seed of Abraham.

Script and verse you're referring to please? It's better to reference scripture than to imply things.

 

[Amikam Israel]

To me it sounds like he is interceding for his countrymen with great desire that they would know Jesus Christ.

But what does that verse mean for Christians?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Script and verse you're referring to please? It's better to reference scripture than to imply things.

Luke 3

 

[Amikam Israel]

Luke 3

What I'm asking is, where did he say Christian? But furthermore and more specifically, what I'm looking to understand is, where does it say the covenants pertain to Christians. Where does it say The laws pertain to Christians? Where does it say the service of God pertain to Christians? Where does it say the promises pertain to Christians?