Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[loverofhumanity]

So, if the Bible is the Word of God. And the writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit and were not "your everyday newspaper reporter", then is the Bible literally and historically true?

To me, the miracles Jesus performed was to give the people proof that he was from God. But do you really believe they really happened? Water turned into wine? He walked on water? He cast demons out of people? And raised Lazarus back to life? Or, were the writers being "symbolic"? Or, were the writers embellishing the story with made up myths and legends?

And, to you, to come in the "glory" of his father, means he is the father?

Baha’u’llah explains these things in a Tablet.


We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

 

[Truthseeker]

It is irrational if she does not know what ‘most scholars’ believe or don’t believe.
Since she cannot possibly know this, she is being irrational.
QED

How about this:

Scholars since the 19th century have regarded Mark as the first of the gospels (called the theory of Markan priority).[Notes 3] Markan priority led to the belief that Mark must be the most reliable of the gospels, but today there is a large consensus that the author of Mark was not intending to write history.[70] Mark preserves memories of real people (including the disciples), places and circumstances, but it is based on previously existing traditions which have been selected and arranged by the author to express his understanding of the significance of Jesus.

Historical reliability of the Gospels - Wikipedia.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, if the Bible is the Word of God. And the writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit and were not "your everyday newspaper reporter", then is the Bible literally and historically true?

To me, the miracles Jesus performed was to give the people proof that he was from God. But do you really believe they really happened? Water turned into wine? He walked on water? He cast demons out of people? And raised Lazarus back to life? Or, were the writers being "symbolic"? Or, were the writers embellishing the story with made up myths and legends?

And, to you, to come in the "glory" of his father, means he is the father?

Baha’u’llah, in the Book of Certitude explains the meanings of many of such passages.

 

[rational experiences]

In true human words. The thinker. A man he him his self imposed thinking....said I gained advice about god from another identity.

As earth in science is human taught highest observed as natural wisdom.

A Rock planet exists as you human stand on it. You own bones like rock as proof.

You live breathe as a heavens mass natural exists. It's burns fiercely way above your head. Light. You can still feel heat where you live. On the ground.

Knowing you're mainly bio water chemistry minerals in water. Oxygen breathing due to nature. Knew.

Humans as other types of body advices not you personally.

So you said the bodies of the earth's gods taught me.

As an adult man......
Theories science
Father didn't confession....the baby adult man did.

So if other types of advice taught you you said it was the creator status.

Cold bodies. Highest. Natural.

Rock is coldest. You said the entity cosmic rock god taught you. As it was cold cosmic arrived burning.

Lucky for humanity a changed natural human brain biology theoried science. Otherwise no human or life in nature would be living.

As you theoried dinosaurs earth inherited destruction. So taught it as anti earths stone CH gases.

It wasn't instant like your advice was.

As ice cooling evolution owned changes to the heavens. But you surely caused it.

The reason the humans who write a legal testimonial old is first. Is why they didn't believe any others brothers updated life attack was worthy.

As you were already taught. And you chose it against the teaching.

It's the same today men telling men that men in science are wrong and get ignored.

As science first owns no argument human as natural is natural and no machine by man is present. Machines used to claim I'm proving science by machines.

Is the exact you don't legally own a science argument.

Science is a fake chosen evil human practice only.

One human themes it's only about one human.

As two humans owned life and he nearly obliterated one whole life...his own.

Lucky mother's ovah ovary owned your life.

Why baby man looking back mind first went to human mother.

Isn't it correct why you blamed mother and not human man maths calculus!

As no woman hurt you. You did it to life yourself. Liar theist.

 

[Truthseeker]

You are correct. I cannot say that most scholars don't believe the details in the Gospels were not accurate.

And I have never said that most scholars don't believe the details in the Gospels were not accurate.

Look at the above post. Yes, you are right. You cannot say that because most scholars believe the details in the Gospels were not accurate.

I never said that you said most scholars don't believe the details in the Gospels were not accurate. You are deflecting.

 

[Truthseeker]

My personal opinion of MrB is based on…
1 His belief that God spoke to him
and
2. The words he believed he heard.

This opinion leads me to the conclusion that it is highly unlikely that MrB is a 'messenger of God'.

Seems rather thin to me. What words He said do you have in mind?

 

[Truthseeker]

I can know this by reading what ‘most scholars’ believe or don’t believe.
This information is readily available on the internet.

I found that on the internet and quoted it above. Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

 

[Truthseeker]

So why do you question loverofhumanity's belief that Baha’u’llah teaches Bahais to revere the Holy Bible?

Rather disingenuous of you. @loverofhumanity and @Trailblazer have different opinions as Trailblazer just said. There is no uniformity of opinion in the Baha'i Faith. Perhaps there uniformity in your own piece of Christianity, and so you don't understand this.

 

[Truthseeker]

The value of this evidence is that it is both early and detailed. The first Christian writings to talk about Jesus are the epistles of St Paul, and scholars agree that the earliest of these letters were written within 25 years of Jesus’s death at the very latest, while the detailed biographical accounts of Jesus in the New Testament gospels date from around 40 years after he died. These all appeared within the lifetimes of numerous eyewitnesses, and provide descriptions that comport with the culture and geography of first-century Palestine. It is also difficult to imagine why Christian writers would invent such a thoroughly Jewish saviour figure in a time and place – under the aegis of the Roman empire – where there was strong suspicion of Judaism.

What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?

We are not questioning that Jesus lived and died. You are deflecting again. We are questioning that the exact words He said are recorded and His exact actions. Different Baha'is differ on how different they are. We are to see through our own eyes. That is our way.

 

[rational experiences]

When my life changed baby self to adult sacrificed changed I had already seen spirit gained father's messages.

As I nearly died as a baby.

Mother saved me as I'm female. Water oxygen microbe manifested returned. Was with me as innocent baby innocent mother. My whole life.

Father's spirit also visited why I exist by sex first.... would visit.

He told me my message was important. Not as a God saving human life. As human life itself.

Did you ever wonder why you human man brother quoted you were the saviour,?

When ice was!

No you didn't.

Water gets put back.

Origin man owning life's healthiest beautiful living perfection sacrificed it.

Theist scientist machine reactor.

So ice puts life's water back.

You manifest in image as the cause why. Designer of science. From ices causes earths saviour mass.

Is what father taught....not an egotist like you are. Father told me.

As you are arguing about self image and man's owned idolisation.

 

[Truthseeker]

So you agree that

“… in him (Jesus) the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily”. Colossians 2:9

?

That is someone's opinion who is not infallible. There is also a different interpretation. God was fully manifested in Jesus. He was the incarnation of the attributes of God. However the essence of God is a different story. How can you say you have read the Writings and don't understand this is a possible interpretation? Did you skim the Writings and not ponder them? Were you detached from own previous understanding as a Christian?

 

[Truthseeker]

What it comes down to, Baha'is are allowed to believe in the Bible any way they want to... as long as it doesn't contradict or interfere with their belief in Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith.

We are allowed to believe what we want to, as you said. If it comes to the point where there are too many problems with the Baha'i understanding of the Bible, we can quit being Baha'is. The thing is, there are many evidences that point to Baha'i being true, and we need to decide if there are too many evidences pointing away from that. There are things we may not understand and accept for the time being, but on the strength of other things we accept as true, we can set them aside until we understand them. But as I said, the contradictions for any person can be too much according to our own understanding. For you it seems there are too many contradictions according to your own understanding, and it is your right to have your own understanding.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is my informed opinion that it is extremely likely Baha'u'llah is a Messenger of God.

It is my informed opinion that there is no other possibility.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are allowed to believe what we want to, as you said. If it comes to the point where there are too many problems with the Baha'i understanding of the Bible, we can quit being Baha'is.

Why would a Baha'i quit being a Baha'i because there are too many problems with the Baha'i understanding of the Bible?

It is clear to me that there are many problems with the Bible, which is all the more reason to be a Baha'i rather than a Christian!

 

[samtonga43]

Yes, I am justified in claiming knowledge, because I am justified in believing that it is true that God does not exist.

Just as you are justified in believing that God may exist?

Yes. Certainty is merely one way of achieving knowledge, but knowledge can also be gained deductively.

Like this…
P1. All men are mortal.
P2. Socrates is a man.
Therefore, Socrates is mortal.
?

Not really. The belief that the universe was created is actually very comparable to the belief that the world only began to exist Last Thursday. They're both baseless claims about the origin of the observable world that contradict what we observe.

Is it not the case that the belief that the world only began to exist Last Thursday is not baseless.
Is it not the case that everything that begins to exist has a cause of its existence?

 

[rational experiences]

When nothing ever began it means there never was a beginning.

As ever means of forever.

However if you lie as a man not Jesus it's because it's term is as it's word. Then you would quote I themed how change is enacted...it is by light.

As light is a cold gas burning. Alight it changed.

Gods body by human term the immaculate spirit.

Gods mother plus God. Clear not burning. Not sacrificed.

Then it was sacrificed. Just light no longer of God. Sacrificed inheritor...inherited.

Terms change so words quote why it's not being.

Now if you ask a man of what terms do you own that statement?

The answer...you didn't.

What is the difference between natural and a human theist?

How you implied words upon all states yourself.

Meanings...false theism.

Lying.
A false preacher.

A self idolator.

As no man is God you're just a man.

When you pretended you were the immaculate body as a man...you aren't.

When you pretended you were burning gas light the day....you aren't.

You said you lived you died. You implied you thought you knew why.

The eternal says you didn't belong in creation. Because we crossed over we died.

Why you don't actually use the term eternal. You just infer it.

 

[samtonga43]

Baha’u’llah explains these things in a Tablet.


We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

I am still wondering about all this early 17th Century English. Surely the latest messenger for today would speak as we speak today. If not, why not?

 

[KWED]

How do you know it's his writing's if he never went to school?

He was the son of a nobleman and government official. He would have had private tuition and been exposed to books and learning from an early age. The claim that he had no education and was only able to read and write by magic is baseless and nonsensical.

 

[samtonga43]

That is someone's opinion who is not infallible. There is also a different interpretation. God was fully manifested in Jesus. He was the incarnation of the attributes of God. However the essence of God is a different story. How can you say you have read the Writings and don't understand this is a possible interpretation? Did you skim the Writings and not ponder them? Were you detached from own previous understanding as a Christian?

No, I have read the Writings, and I have done a lot of pondering, and I understand that you see this as a possible interpretation.

What's more, I understand why you cannot believe that in MrB. "the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily”. That would really throw a spanner in the works!

And, yes, I was detached. My BA degree in Theology and Religious Studies taught me about the necessity of detachment

 

[KWED]

The existence of God, God's interest in us, revelation through prophets, &c. cannot be known without the Messengers of God.

But if there is no god, there are no messengers of god, so all those who claim to be one are delusional or dishonest.

Before you can claim that anyone is a messenger of god you need to demonstrate that there is a god in the first place. That is basic logic and rational thinking.