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Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You are assuming he was a messenger of god and so you have to accept whatever he says.
No, I believe that He was Messenger of God so I choose to accept whatever he says.
Again, you are just assuming that if there is a god, that god is entirely morally good.
No, I do not assume, I believe that God is all-good. God is not subject to being moral as only humans can be moral. God sets the standards for morality, He is not subject to them.

Morality is the belief that some behaviour is right and acceptable and that other behaviour is wrong.
A morality is a system of principles and values concerning people's behaviour, which is generally accepted by a society or by a particular group of people.
Morality definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood how social morality works. We have moved away from things that are condoned or prescribed by religion, like sexism, homophobia and barbaric punishments, precisely because civilised society is no longer prepared to accept them.
I could not give a tinker's damn what society accepts, I only care about what God accepts.
Modern society accepts all kinds of immoral behavior.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So polytheism is a true religion on the one true god? How does that work? (Don't tell me, it was corrupted)
I said that Hinduism is a religion of God, I did not say polytheism is true.
I do not know what happened to Hinduism.
Believing in Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism just to cover your bases would seem to be the definition of Pascal's wager.
I never said that I believe in those religions to cover my bases.
I believe in those religions because it is a Baha'i belief that they are true religions.
You can't believe in monotheism and polytheism at the same time. One of those beliefs must be insincere. So, which is it?
This has nothing to do with sincerity. It is about what is actually true. Since there is only one true God monotheism is true, according to my beliefs.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You posted a link and gave a description that literally confirm that excluding women from a job on the basis of their gender is sexism!
The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
No, that is not what I did.

sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.
sexism is - Google Search

Since you do not have a clue as to why they cannot serve on the UHJ, you cannot know it is sexism. You do not know that the reason that women cannot serve on the UHJ is because of prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, that is just YOUR personal opinion, but you are so blinded by your personal opinion that you cannot even think in a complex fashion.

Excluding women from a job on the basis of their gender is not always sexism. It might be or it might not be, but you do not know if it is in the case of the UHJ.

But you are going to believe whatever you want to believe, just like everyone else. It is always easier to toss labels around then to find out the truth.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that “Everything that begins to exist has a cause”, is more obviously true than its negation.

That is your claim, but, as I already pointed out, it is baseless because we have never observed something begin to exist.

Did you just pop into the world un-caused?

"I" am an abstraction of a particular grouping of matter. Each individual constituent pre-existed me and will exist after I cease to be. In a metaphysical sense, "I" do not exist apart from the matter which composes me.

So, no, I never began to exist.

Do you sit down for dinner and find that your food has appeared on the plate by magic?

No, because if my food did that then I would have an example of something that began to exist, which is what you're advocating for. This is a point against your own argument.

I believe that the idea that something just cannot come into being from nothing, comes from the general metaphysical intuition. It is constantly confirmed in our experience.

I never claimed that anything came into being from nothing. In fact, I am claiming that we have never observed anything come into being at all, so we have no frame of reference for claiming what is required for something to come into being.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
That is not entirely correct. Science has observed a human coming into existence. The cause of that is known.

Regards Tony

In that sense, causality requires a temporal dimension, and so there cannot be a Creator of the universe because "the universe" includes spacetime itself.

There can't be something before T=0, because for something to exist at all it needs a position in both space and time.

What we often colloquially refer to as "the universe" outside of this framework, which is the fundamental forces and matter, was caused by the Big Bang.

Any way you look at it, there's not any room for a Creator God.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I just explained that in the previous post. Baha'u'llah did not say they would be burned alive, He said "him also shall ye burn."

86. Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn; should anyone deliberately take another’s life, him also shall ye put to death. # 62
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 203

But even if He meant they are to be burned alive that is not the definition of brutal and barbaric.
It is only YOUR OPINION that it would be brutal and barbaric, it is not a fact.

These are also Maximum Penalties. The Universal House of Justice has the mandate to set other penalties and fines. The maximum penalty does not have to be given.

I also see a time when people will accept that a Maximum penalty is fair and just.

If you have intentionality killed people by fire, then by loosing your life to fire, is not unjust. The Writings say the punishment is an atonement for the crime.

Regards Tony
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
God is outside creation, God does not need room, as God does not descend into creation.

Regards Tony

You can apply as many attributes to God as you want, but that weakens your argument by adding additional assumptions. It also still leaves us without any evidence for God's existence, so it's irrelevant to the point of discussion.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
There is a reason, but we have not been told yet, but given the duties of the UHJ, I can think of a reason. Of course, you do not even know what those duties are or how they might be disrupted by a woman serving so you are flying blind.
What could possibly be the reason for a woman disrupting duties? Would they arouse so much passion in the men that they (the men) could not think straight? Are they reluctant to provide a women's restroom? Do they fear that women will display the common sense they lack? ;)
How many women have ever been a Pope? Is that sexism?
Yes.
No, there is a reason why the Pope has always been a man
What is it?
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
No it is not, because you do not KNOW that the restriction is based upon prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination.
You think that matters? Let's say that for every woman who serves on your supreme council that a random child would be abducted by squids every day. It would still be a sexist system because the system is constructed in a way that excludes women.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Personally I see it is a bounty Women have been exempted from this service, as it allows them to serve in a capacity that will be of a great benefit to humanity. That is the education of the children and youth that build our future.

Regards Tony

You personally see your male privilege as a bounty to those who don't enjoy it. How magnanimous.
:rolleyes:
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
You can apply as many attributes to God as you want, but that weakens your argument by adding additional assumptions. It also still leaves us without any evidence for God's existence, so it's irrelevant to the point of discussion.

I see it explains how God is seen in Creation, exactly as God has chosen for us to see God.

It allows us to consider the evidence as provided from God.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What could possibly be the reason for a woman disrupting duties?
Getting pregnant and having to care for a baby. Given the importance the Baha'i Faith places on child-rearing and family as the most vital unit in society, having to do both, if it was even possible, would create a conflict.
Do you know any men who can get pregnant?

If you do not know what those duties are and why they cannot be disrupted you are shooting in the dark.

What females have been on the Supreme Court?

The United States Supreme Court is the highest level of the judiciary branch. Out of 115 justices that have served on the court, only five have been women. Three are currently serving: Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan, and Amy Coney Barrett. Did you know?

Supreme Court - RepresentWomen


Is the Supreme Court sexist, or might there be another reason it has almost always been men serving?

No women on the Supreme Court have ever been of childbearing age. Since the UHJ is democratically elected, not appointed, how could it be ensured that a woman of childbearing age was not elected?

I am just guessing why women are not allowed to serve on the UHJ, only Baha'u'llah knew the reason since it was His stipulation.
What is it?
I don't know. Catholicism is not my religion.
 
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