Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[ppp]

There is a law, there is a promise, that in the future it will be obvious as to why.

That alone is reason enough to question.

 

[ppp]

I did respond.

I dont think you are reading the post you are responding to for content.

 

[rational experiences]

A man said he was guilty of causing life's sacrifice by science of God terms.

So the law he explained was his to judge.

As women were not involved with law. It was their fault. Men. Women not included hence.

It includes lived choices of nasty judgements. By men scientist theist.

Women were considered to be holy virtuous hence did not need to be involved.

Bahu Allah.

Muslim men prove today they were memory sacrificed in burning brain prickling but ice saviour saving. As they claim as some do...sex in heavens after human death.

Yet only biology owns sex by biology conditions. Humans are living inside heavens. Above us is only sky.

So bahu Allah knew men's spiritual consciousness had been lost by continual star fall by Romes choices....then big blast gained around 1000 AD. Falling star.

Christ terms holy wandering star past by earth.

Knew. Did a summary of old advices just as Jesus had about Moses then updated his advices.

Realised why men had been losing spiritual consciousness. Science satanic themes of gods body sacrifice emerging. Converting science. Forbidden by Rome in Jesus agreement.

Anger is involved in losing spiritual parental life balance. Was against his brother. By legal position only.

So he had to try to enforce a new legal system to not abide homosexuals as condemned....as Jesus said all babies innocent born are given sin by parental mutual sex.

Two mutual humans natural position god create a homosexual child innocent of it's inheritance.

So he summarised old advices to update new to love abide care for all.

Reminded by a teaching.

It's easy to remove a portion of a teaching to argue an incorrect argument.

The whole teaching is first.

Then comments are after. Legal.

You seen to forget he was murdered for trying to implement a holy rights legal governing. By Jesus terms.

Men who read scientific quotes are who are wrong as the scientist and rich man were proclaimed criminals against natural gods man life. First position men who ignored human father's spiritual advice.

Not the homosexual man.

It was science stated first. Then it was lawfully commanded after inserted. Legal human rights of a newly born baby. Innocent said legal.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That alone is reason enough to question.

Yes indeed, but these questions require the asker to find the answer for their own self.

Otherwise, they are not really asking a question they want answered.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

Basic advice of human man.

God Rock in creation was gods law.

Men gave it maths space zero womb fake woman thesis.

Science of man evil.

As God by law rock. Not a woman.

Evil caused to liFe by men converting gods zero substances in technology.

Men said in gods law I'm guilty.

So he taught law judgements. Not women. Who as virtuous lives had served him as a holy human spiritual life.

Therefore men gave themselves the task of judging human men in human legal law.

It wasn't sexual discrimination.

It was termed justified as women should not be caused anymore suffering as all men were their babies.

Reasoned. To be the best man in life.

 

[rational experiences]

A man said he was guilty of causing life's sacrifice by science of God terms.

So the law he explained was his to judge.

As women were not involved with law. It was their fault. Men. Women not included hence.

It includes lived choices of nasty judgements. By men scientist theist.

Women were considered to be holy virtuous hence did not need to be involved.

Bahu Allah.

Muslim men prove today they were memory sacrificed in burning brain prickling but ice saviour saving. As they claim as some do...sex in heavens after human death.

Yet only biology owns sex by biology conditions. Humans are living inside heavens. Above us is only sky.

So bahu Allah knew men's spiritual consciousness had been lost by continual star fall by Romes choices....then big blast gained around 1000 AD. Falling star.

Christ terms holy wandering star past by earth.

Knew. Did a summary of old advices just as Jesus had about Moses then updated his advices.

Realised why men had been losing spiritual consciousness. Science satanic themes of gods body sacrifice emerging. Converting science. Forbidden by Rome in Jesus agreement.

Anger is involved in losing spiritual parental life balance. Was against his brother. By legal position only.

So he had to try to enforce a new legal system to not abide homosexuals as condemned....as Jesus said all babies innocent born are given sin by parental mutual sex.

Two mutual humans natural position god create a homosexual child innocent of it's inheritance.

So he summarised old advices to update new to love abide care for all.

Reminded by a teaching.

It's easy to remove a portion of a teaching to argue an incorrect argument.

The whole teaching is first.

Then comments are after. Legal.

You seen to forget he was murdered for trying to implement a holy rights legal governing. By Jesus terms.

Men who read scientific quotes are who are wrong as the scientist and rich man were proclaimed criminals against natural gods man life. First position men who ignored human father's spiritual advice.

Not the homosexual man.

It was science stated first. Then it was lawfully commanded after inserted. Legal human rights of a newly born baby. Innocent said legal.

Sacrificed man had inherited baby man life.

Hence by law of sex sin baby proclaimed innocent. Said human legal.

Guilty was the criminal act of man's sciences fake mother zero womb maths. Caused. Reviewed. Judged as reason why.

Judgement not about being homosexual judgement was why it had been caused. Gods rock law.

Science.

Human legal input into testimonial after science review. Said all human babies born innocent as two parents mother father with God gave them life's inheritance.

Not against God by legality human.

Only against God by changing God stone mass.

 

[ppp]

Yes indeed, but these questions require the asker to find the answer for their own self.

Otherwise, they are not really asking a question they want answered.

Regards Tony

No. You're wrong. But that's ok.

 

[rational experiences]

Father deceased. Deceased brothers men origin life deceased total sacrifice

Correct messages given by heavens recorded angels.

Says correct human consciousness.

Not question. No question needed.

Natural answer.

Father said if mass is the constant.

It's god rock planet body.
It's presence gods mass cooled heavens.

Cold is mass is the constant.

Father said science by human brother lied his constant burning light is to remove cold mass both positions

He places constant machine ground status his first position holding of energy getting energy ground. Alien image.
.his machine in ground like God earth.

He doesn't want image of man he wants crop position held image of alien no man image for machine.

We aren't a machine. Part of his human biology mind to destroyed machine makes him claim man is part machine.

As nuclear ground transmitters virtually removes designer plus machine everyday.

So father says man in cloud image is changing again. The human warning he gave me.

It was his man's records that visited me said it was important what he needed to say and it was right away. But I would learn what he needed to be said living.

That was about 30 years ago.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You are wrong about God being a deceiver. But you can believe what you want.

Well, Quran claims Allah speaks in Parables and causes disbelievers to Err and go astray. Yes?
Now, would you be able to find few examples in the Quran where Allah spoke in Parable and its meaning is clear to the believers but if you ask a disbeliever he cannot know what Allah means by this parable.

 

[Link]

Well, Quran claims Allah speaks in Parables and causes disbelievers to Err and go astray. Yes?
Now, would you be able to find few examples in the Quran where Allah spoke in Parable and its meaning is clear to the believers but if you ask a disbeliever he cannot know what Allah means by this parable.

It can be parables or examples or both included in the word, for example Bani-Israel and what they go through and what they did to their Prophets is a mathal as well, but Quran says God throws examples and parables of every kind to make people remember and has made the Quran easy to remember.

Believers understand the parables not because they are complex, but because they have something called "fear of God" and "soft hearts", while disbelievers have hard hearts and are obtuse.

For example, when they read about Ibrahim's (a) family, they don't relate it to the family of Mohammad (s) despite Quran emphasizing it to be related to the family of Mohammad (s).

This is just an example of a mathal. They don't understand much of Quran if any, because they have hard hearts.

Then there are also parables that have to be understood by norms of language. For example, if we take literally the cut hands of thief, we have to cut both arms (not just hands, or two outside fingers like Shiite hadiths say), but to me it's obviously an expression to cut off their ability from stealing (For a time).

But God is not deceiving us, this is not what it means. It means despite how clear his examples of the past and parables are, people go astray and don't understand what God intends although it is clear.

For example all the warnings of destroyed nations of the past, should make us fear promises regarding the Mahdi and prepare the world to avoid those warnings. But we pay no attention.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It can be parables or examples or both included in the word, for example Bani-Israel and what they go through and what they did to their Prophets is a mathal as well, but Quran says God throws examples and parables of every kind to make people remember and has made the Quran easy to remember.

Believers understand the parables not because they are complex, but because they have something called "fear of God" and "soft hearts", while disbelievers have hard hearts and are obtuse.

For example, when they read about Ibrahim's (a) family, they don't relate it to the family of Mohammad (s) despite Quran emphasizing it to be related to the family of Mohammad (s).

This is just an example of a mathal. They don't understand much of Quran if any, because they have hard hearts.

Then there are also parables that have to be understood by norms of language. For example, if we take literally the cut hands of thief, we have to cut both arms (not just hands, or two outside fingers like Shiite hadiths say), but to me it's obviously an expression to cut off their ability from stealing (For a time).

But God is not deceiving us, this is not what it means. It means despite how clear his examples of the past and parables are, people go astray and don't understand what God intends although it is clear.

For example all the warnings of destroyed nations of the past, should make us fear promises regarding the Mahdi and prepare the world to avoid those warnings. But we pay no attention.

Are you familiar with Gospels where Jesus was speaking in Parables, then His disciples asked why do speak Parable?

What did Jesus reply? Do you remember?

To me, this is exactly what the Quran is talking about.

Believers understand the parables not because they are complex, but because they have something called "fear of God" and "soft hearts", while disbelievers have hard hearts and are obtuse.

This is true. But do you remember what Imam Sadigh said? He said True believer is like philosophers stone. كبريت احمر. Then He continued saying, as you have not seen philosophers stone, you can almost never see a true believer.
From this we understand that in reality although the Book of God is clear, but only to the Prophets, and the chosen ones of God. Everyone else has limitations on this. This is why we have to learn its true interpretation from the infallible beings.

 

[Link]

To me, this is exactly what the Quran is talking about.

Almost of all of Quran is examples or parables of the past events to take lesson for present and future.

And then there is also some parables in sense of none literal examples, like the parable of light.

But the Quran says it's been made easy to grasp and remember. All it takes per Quran is a soft heart that turns to God often and fears God. The significance of the verse is more then parables you think in English, but rather, most of Quran if not all, is all examples and parables. Even the first verse of Quran "by the name of God" is a mathal but it's clear what it is to hearts that fear God.

That's all it takes is a fearful heart that turns to God and seeks his help. I understand Quran deeply not because of genius level or anything like that, it's simple. I reflect over it while seeking help of God through the Imam of time and his power and light, this is the meaning of "by the name of God.." in Surah Falaq, this is what one must do to break the locks of dark magic upon it and break the knots.

Quran bestows intelligence and makes you higher in insight and intelligence, but being quick in thinking or complex solving analytical is not required, the reflecting Quran talks about is not intellectual, but rather, it's to pay attention with the soul's eyes and ears, to fear God and take lesson.

The whole Quran opens to those who fear in a way it doesn't to others. This is one of the signs that it is from God because it bestows knowledge to those who believe in God and next world and last day, while it increases in hardness of heart to those who turn away from it's reminder (Welayat of Mohammad (S), Ali (a), etc).

 

[Link]

This is why we have to learn its true interpretation from the infallible beings.

I agree we have to go to Ahlulbayt (a). This is not the issue, but you justifying that Ahlulbayt (a) know Quran deeply and provide insights, won't prove your Prophets, but rather it's circular in reasoning to assert they know and so we must take their interpretation seriously.

Take time to understand, that you keep resorting to circular reasoning, but this is understandable why you do it, since your scriptures have the same circular reasoning.

If Ahlulbayt (a) weren't appointed clearly by Quran and Sunnah, then, Shiites would have a similar problem.

We can't just assert they know more.

Of course, Ahlulbayt (a) words are layered, and not all of them can be understood right away, and they compliment the Quran.

So we agree on that. But this does not mean I have to take Bahai scriptures seriously.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I agree we have to go to Ahlulbayt (a). This is not the issue, but you justifying that Ahlulbayt (a) know Quran deeply and provide insights, won't prove your Prophets, but rather it's circular in reasoning to assert they know and so we must take their interpretation seriously.

Take time to understand, that you keep resorting to circular reasoning, but this is understandable why you do it, since your scriptures have the same circular reasoning.

If Ahlulbayt (a) weren't appointed clearly by Quran and Sunnah, then, Shiites would have a similar problem.

We can't just assert they know more.

Of course, Ahlulbayt (a) words are layered, and not all of them can be understood right away, and they compliment the Quran.

So we agree on that. But this does not mean I have to take Bahai scriptures seriously.

Well, Ahlulbayt yes, but remember according to Islam and Christianity, still a Mahdi and Christ must appear. So, there is more guidance to learn from.
Moreover, even if we go to Ahlulbayt, didn't Imam Sadiq say, the Day of Resurrection, is the Day of Manifestation of the Qaim? Didn't Imam Baghir say, when Quran says, Allah comes down it means the Mahdi appears in Iraq? They said when Quran says, on the resurrection Day, the earth shines with the light of Lord, this is the Mahdi. The earth shined with light of Mahdi. But the Shias today, they think Day of Resurrection is different from the Manifestation of the Qaim. Well, tell me who is deviating from Ahlulbayt.

 

[Link]

Well, Ahlulbayt yes, but remember according to Islam and Christianity, still a Mahdi and Christ must appear. So, there is more guidance to learn from.
Moreover, even if we go to Ahlulbayt, didn't Imam Sadiq say, the Day of Resurrection, is the Day of Manifestation of the Qaim? Didn't Imam Baghir say, when Quran says, Allah comes down it means the Mahdi appears in Iraq? They said when Quran says, on the resurrection Day, the earth shines with the light of Lord, this is the Mahdi. The earth shined with light of Mahdi. But the Shias today, they think Day of Resurrection is different from the Manifestation of the Qaim. Well, tell me who is deviating from Ahlulbayt.

We've been through those hadiths and verses in other threads. You like repeating the same things.

We are discussing whether your methodology is circular reasoning or not. Try not to spitfire hadiths that we've discussed already (and debated).

If the Mahdi today comes and he has no miracles constantly - he would lack proof. This is because has no Nubuwa.

But part of his proof and miracles would be the book of Ali (a) which contains not only an explanation from Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) but has how the Quran was built over time (23 years), and so we can plug this in a program today, and it would be easy to see how Quran progressed. And so we see there is even wisdom in prolonging showing the book of Ali (a).

It will bring the miracle of the Sunnah complimenting Quran and why Quran was dynamically revealed (We lost most of this over time). But without miracles of the physical type, no one has to take what he says seriously. And so he will provide miracles.

This will bring people back to how enlightened Madina was.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I agree we have to go to Ahlulbayt (a). This is not the issue, but you justifying that Ahlulbayt (a) know Quran deeply and provide insights, won't prove your Prophets, but rather it's circular in reasoning to assert they know and so we must take their interpretation seriously.

Take time to understand, that you keep resorting to circular reasoning, but this is understandable why you do it, since your scriptures have the same circular reasoning.

If Ahlulbayt (a) weren't appointed clearly by Quran and Sunnah, then, Shiites would have a similar problem.

We can't just assert they know more.

Of course, Ahlulbayt (a) words are layered, and not all of them can be understood right away, and they compliment the Quran.

So we agree on that. But this does not mean I have to take Bahai scriptures seriously.

Well, Ahlulbayt yes, but remember according to Islam and Christianity, still a Mahdi and Christ mus appear.
Moreover, even if we go to Ahlulbayt, didn't Imam Sadiq say, the Day of Resurrection, is the Day of Manifestation of the Qaim? Didn't Imam Baghir say, when Quran says, Allah comes down it means the Mahdi appears in Iraq? They said when Quran says, on the resurrection Day, the earth shines with the light of Lord, this is the Mahdi. The earth shined with light of Mahdi. But the Shias today, they think Day of Resurrection is different from the Manifestation of the Qaim. Well, tell me who is deviating from Ahlulbayt

We've been through those hadiths and verses in other threads. You like repeating the same things.

We are discussing whether your methodology is circular reasoning or not. Try not to spitfire hadiths that we've discussed already (and debated).

If the Mahdi today comes and he has no miracles constantly - he would lack proof. This is because has no Nubuwa.

Yes, the miracles of Bahaullah are many. But they are not magicians type of miracles, like what people imagine Jesus did. The Bab too. Although according to history neither the Bab or Baha'u'llah had any education in religions they knew all the details, as we see in their writings. Where else the got it from, if it was not revelations?
For example Bahaullah wrote Book of Iqan in Two days only, from His mind. Many witnesses have seen Baha'u'llah's speed of Revelations. So, these are His miracles. But if you think there must be other miracles that people wished, then tell me, why Jesus and Muhammad disagreed to perform Miracles when they asked?

But part of his proof and miracles would be the book of Ali (a) which contains not only an explanation from Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) but has how the Quran was built over time (23 years), and so we can plug this in a program today, and it would be easy to see how Quran progressed. And so we see there is even wisdom in prolonging showing the book of Ali (a).



It will bring the miracle of the Sunnah complimenting Quran and why Quran was dynamically revealed (We lost most of this over time). But without miracles of the physical type, no one has to take what he says seriously. And so he will provide miracles.

This will bring people back to how enlightened Madina was.

The Book or the Quran of Ali, is subject to interpretation. The Shia used to think that the Quran was altered or part of it was removed by the Uthman. Based on this, they think, what is meant by Quran of Ali, is just another missing part of the Quran. Whereas this idea has no proof from the Quran, or the Hadithes of Muhammad.
But what is meant by a new Quran, or the Quran of Ali, is a new Revelation, or a similar Book like Quran. In Bahai view this is the Qayyoom alasmaa, revealed by Bab, which is in the style of the Quran.

 

[Link]

(1) Miracles were performed by both Mohammad (s) and Jesus (a), but this doesn't mean everything disbelievers demand (like a mountain of gold) must be done by the Messengers (a) and they only reveal such signs by God's permission. So your question is partially if not fully loaded.

(2) The day of judgment reality is the light of Ahlulbayt (a) and Prophets (a), but it's their full reality in display including their immense power which was only partially revealed through miracles, but their power is more then that, since they are the poles who pull people to God, their power was much more then people accused them when calling them sorcerers, and 19 Angels from God's chosen forces will hold all of hell (Jinn all together can't overwhelm the 19 Angels), and so the power of Ahlulbayt (a) is immense, and their truth and reality with God blessing them and giving them power will be seen on day of judgment, disbelievers will know the power is from God. You are mixing hadiths on this topic with your assumptions of Bahai Faith. One of the questions they will be asked "is this sorcery or do you not see" on day of judgment, because, of course, the same power but hidden to a degree, was accused to be sorcery.

(3)The book of Ali (a) is explained in many hadiths to have order of the verses as they were revealed, this is not the Quran as is, because Quran as is, is not in order, and it would be messed up if in order revealed, since verses were revealed in different Surahs at different times, it would be mixed up. Also, that Rasool (s) Sunnah and explanation and circumstances of verses revealed, is in hadiths. I would go research hadiths instead of seeing Sunni propaganda on this and concluding it's about Tahrif, which it's not.

Again, you are being circular reasoning in explaining hadiths and Quranic verses. There is no reason to take your interpretation seriously.

If the Bahai scriptures are miracles, then make a thread, showing this. I've read some of them, and they appear bad to me. So go ahead and show it like I'm doing in signs of eloquence of Quran thread.

There is no reason to continuously assert. Show it if you are truthful. Otherwise, I've read some of Bahai scriptures when really I didn't need to given the Quran is clear Mohammad (s) is the end of all Prophets (a), and that day of judgment is clearly not what Bahai scriptures say it to be.

 

[KWED]

The light appears before the sun rises. It never just appears with its full splendor. That is the reality of how religion also manifests unto humanity.

But you are claiming that there was light from the sum before the sun existed. Which is obvious nonsense.

Some poeple choose not to see beyond the material world, they remain captive to it and as such, can not discover the realities beyond the material senses.

Our senses cannot detect that which is not real.
However, we can imagine things that are not real. The trick is understanding what is real and what is imaginary. Some people are unable to tell the difference, apparently.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Book or the Quran of Ali, is subject to interpretation.

as are all scriptures.

 

[KWED]

You do not KNOW the reason why women are excluded from serving on the UHJ so you cannot KNOW it is because of prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination.
You are dead in the water.

It is irrelevant what the excuse for discriminating against them is, it is still discrimination.