Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[CG Didymus]

It is if that service not only comes with some noteworthy perks
(just think of the prestige that comes from working full time at a place like this;
View attachment 64150
with a view from the office like this;

It has perks such as having your living expenses paid for.

And most importantly it enacts laws which in a Baha'i world directly effect people (which naturally includes women).

To bar people form a position which has obvious perks and prestige and effects their lives is obviously discrimination regardless of whether you call it service.

But you should ask yourself the question, if somone called being a member of the clergy a "service" then barred women from participating or called being a member of national parliament a "service" then barred women from participating, would you be hoodwinked about such obvious discrimination against women by application of the term service?

If not then it is most probably indoctrination that leads you to be hoodwinked by the application of the term service into your own indoctrinated religion.

In my opinion.

I looked it up and found...

'As to the House of Justice: according to the explicit text of the Law of God, its membership is exclusively reserved to men.
'People must just accept the fact that women are not eligible to the International House of Justice.
​

I don't know, but I'd imagine there are a lot of women working there in subordinate positions.

 

[danieldemol]

I looked it up and found...

'As to the House of Justice: according to the explicit text of the Law of God, its membership is exclusively reserved to men.
'People must just accept the fact that women are not eligible to the International House of Justice.
​

I don't know, but I'd imagine there are a lot of women working there in subordinate positions.

Subordinate being the key word

 

[CG Didymus]

Dogma: a fixed, especially religious, belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts (Cambridge Dictionary)

The beliefs of most religions are dogmatic, especially those with divine revelation and infallibility.

I don't see where it says anything about "dogma" is a man-made belief. Where's she getting that from?

 

[Trailblazer]

Unbelievable... Here's a guy who made almost the same claim as Baha'u'llah...

with absolutely no evidence to back up his claim.

 

[CG Didymus]

Subordinate being the key word

Hopefully, Baha'is are not going to be dogmatic about it, and at some point all those men will change that rule and allow women to serve.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't see where it says anything about "dogma" is a man-made belief. Where's she getting that from?

Dogma: a fixed, especially religious, belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts (Cambridge Dictionary)

Baha'is are not expected to accept a fixed belief or set of beliefs without any doubts.

 

[danieldemol]

Dogma: a fixed, especially religious, belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts (Cambridge Dictionary)

Baha'is are not expected to accept a fixed belief or set of beliefs without any doubts.

O SON OF BEING! With the hands of power I made thee and with the fingers of strength I created thee; and within thee have I placed the essence of My light. Be thou content with it and seek naught else, for My work is perfect and My command is binding. Question it not, nor have a doubt thereof.
~Hidden words of Baha'u'llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

My command is binding. Question it not, nor have a doubt thereof.

I said that Baha'is are not expected to accept a fixed belief or set of beliefs without any doubts.
However, beliefs are not Laws.

We are not supposed to question the Laws (commands) of God.
The second one of the Twin Duties is that we observe every ordinance laid down by Baha'u'llah.

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 330-331

 

[danieldemol]

I said that Baha'is are not expected to accept a fixed belief or set of beliefs without any doubts.
However, beliefs are not Laws.

We are not supposed to question the Laws (commands) of God.
The second one of the Twin Duties is that we observe every ordinance laid down by Baha'u'llah.

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 330-331

actually that said *and* my command is binding. Thus it seems to me to refer to both belief in the creator *and* the commandments.
Are you insisting that one can doubt the creator without doubting it's commandments? How does that even work?

"I doubt you are the creator and i doubt your work is perfect but your commands are binding"?!

In my opinion.

 

[KWED]

To be clear, I have the ability to accept it if I want to accept it because I have free will to choose.

However, I do not have to accept anything I do not choose to accept because I have free will to choose what I am willing to accept.

Indeed.
You have the ability to accept that the earth orbits the sun, but you can choose to reject it.

You have just explained that you are simply exercising your ability to reject reality, logic and reason when it doesn't suit your existing beliefs.
Which is what I've been saying all along.
The fact that you don't even realise that you have conclusively proved my point just adds further weight to the conclusion.

 

[KWED]

I suspect as they are elected to the Universal House of Justice, that they proved by their faith and actions in service, that they were very humbled by the service they now face, that has no room for self based desire.

I have a lovely bridge you might like to buy.

All they can do is implement the law given by Baha'u'llah. Thus they are trustworthy and truthful in the role they serve in as an elected body.
Each one of them would have their own opinions on these subjects.

So the UHJ blindly implements 150 year old dogma (based on ancient superstition), even though its members might disagree with it.
Doesn't sound like a rational basis for a world government - or anything, really.

 

[KWED]

Because you have brought in the need for people that are not Baha'i, to be given rights to vote in Baha'i elections. Would you like me to quote that? I am on my phone and it is difficult to do that.

Regards Tony

So you admit that in this great utopia of global peace and unity, there will be an elite ruling class based on membership of a religion, and the majority will be disenfranchised and without representation.
So basically, oppressive theological totalitarianism.
Sounds perfect. Can't understand why everyone hasn't already signed up.

 

[KWED]

No, it is the perfect word to describe what Christians do.
The Baha’i Faith has no dogmas because dogmas are man-made doctrines. What Baha’is believe is based upon the Writings of Baha’u’llah. Scriptures are not dogma.

1. Christians , Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc all believe that they are following gods laws - exactly as you do.
And they all claim that the others are wrong, just as you do.

Dogma: a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

1. You don't believe that god or Bahaullah is "an authority"?
2. You don't believe that Bahaullah's writings are true?

Doesn't sound like you are a Bahai then.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you admit that in this great utopia of global peace and unity, there will be an elite ruling class based on membership of a religion, and the majority will be disenfranchised and without representation.
So basically, oppressive theological totalitarianism.
Sounds perfect. Can't understand why everyone hasn't already signed up.

Now on Ignore list.

 

[KWED]

with absolutely no evidence to back up his claim.

But his character, his writings, his message!
And what about all the followers and people prepared to die for that belief? And what about his prophecies?

 

[KWED]

Dogma: a fixed, especially religious, belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts (Cambridge Dictionary)

So you now admit that religious belief can be dogma.

Baha'is are not expected to accept a fixed belief or set of beliefs without any doubts.

You have repeatedly stated that you have to follow Bahaullah's writings.
But then you have also claimed that you disagree with him on some things, despite knowing he is right.

 

[KWED]

Now on Ignore list.

If only you had rational argument to fall back on, rather than just quoting platitudes.
You might have made a better job of it.

 

[ajay0]

1. Christians , Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc all believe that they are following gods laws - exactly as you do.
And they all claim that the others are wrong, just as you do.

Where does Hindus claim that the 'others are wrong' ?

The enlightened sage Sri Ramakrishna stated that all religions are valid paths to the Divine. Same did Mahatma Gandhi for that matter .

 

[KWED]

Where does Hindus claim that the 'others are wrong' ?

Oh, so Hindus believe that there is only one god and the only way into his heaven is through Jesus Christ?
I didn't know that.

 

[ajay0]

Oh, so Hindus believe that there is only one god and the only way into his heaven is through Jesus Christ?
I didn't know that.

There are monotheistic sects in Hinduism like the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, Kabir Panthis , Lingayats that worships a monotheistic God .

Hinduism is inclusive of other religions and consider the likes of Jesus Christ and Muhammad as holy figures due to the teachings of Ramakrishna and other Hindu enlightened sages.The Brahmakumaris consider both to be prophets of God.

There may be variance with some aspects of the theological doctrines of other religions on account of their exclusivist stance, but generally its own theological doctrine is inclusive of all.