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Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Muffled said:
I believe there is no way to prove whether the Bab was or was not Elijah. The way I figure it is that the B man wanted to appear to be like Jesus so he drummed up the Bab to be his Elijah. That is also a decpeption.
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The Message of the Bab proves that your words are hollow echoes of unjust self based thoughts. Your thoughts, without the knowledge of the Bab's Message, are a self imposed deception.

Here are a few Passages.

"...O peoples of the East and the West! Be ye fearful of God concerning the Cause of the true Joseph and barter Him not for a paltry price established by yourselves, or for a trifle of your earthly possessions, that ye may, in very truth, be praised by Him as those who are reckoned among the pious who stand nigh unto this Gate..." Bab

"We have planted the Garden of the Bayán [i.e., His Revelation] in the name of Him Whom God will make manifest, and have granted you permission to live therein until the time of His manifestation; .."

"...At the time of the appearance of Him Whom God will make manifest the most distinguished among the learned and the lowliest of men shall both be judged alike. How often the most insignificant of men have acknowledged the truth, while the most learned have remained wrapt in veils..." Bab

Regards Tony
 
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samtonga43

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
I never denied saying that so what is your problem?
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No problem here, Tb.

You said that only MrB had authority to interpret those records.
Then you said that MrB said that He had the authority to interpret those records.

Is it "You said" or "MrB. said"?
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
samtonga43 said:
This is circular reasoning,TransmutingSoul.
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I would offer Jesus Christ said Elijah always comes first and that John the Baptist, who was preparing the way for Jesus the Christ, was Elijah.

The entire Message if the Bab was to prepare the way for the 'One Whom God would make Manifest'.

Unless you are suggesting all the scripture of the world are circular reasoning, that God is the author of circular reasoning?

If that is the case, then logically science is also circular reasoning , as it is founded on what comes from God?

Regards Tony
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
TransmutingSoul said:
The Message of the Bab proves that your words are hollow echoes of unjust self based thoughts. Your thoughts, without the knowledge of the Bab's Message, are a self imposed deception.

Here are a few Passages.

"...O peoples of the East and the West! Be ye fearful of God concerning the Cause of the true Joseph and barter Him not for a paltry price established by yourselves, or for a trifle of your earthly possessions, that ye may, in very truth, be praised by Him as those who are reckoned among the pious who stand nigh unto this Gate..." Bab

"We have planted the Garden of the Bayán [i.e., His Revelation] in the name of Him Whom God will make manifest, and have granted you permission to live therein until the time of His manifestation; .."

"...At the time of the appearance of Him Whom God will make manifest the most distinguished among the learned and the lowliest of men shall both be judged alike. How often the most insignificant of men have acknowledged the truth, while the most learned have remained wrapt in veils..." Bab

Regards Tony
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As usual Baha'is make claims. Can you show who was the "Elijah" to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Buddha and Krishna? And was Elijah a manifestation of God? Was John the Baptist a manifestation of God? So, why is it that the Bab has to be a manifestation of God? 19 years and then his religion was over and done?
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
CG Didymus said:
Yes the Lamb is mentioned a lot in Revelation. And how is it that Baha'is interpret the "Lamb" as the Bab? Where in the Baha'i writing does it say this?
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Baha’u’llah referred to rhe Bab as “My Forerunner,” as as his 'Herald' and as the 'Primal Point', who prepared the way for Baha’u’llah’s revelation.

Baha’u’llah has described the Bab’s supreme sacrifice as the one “Who laid down His life for this Great Announcement.” – Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 140.

There would be other references.

Regards Tony
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
In order to distinguish the true Messengers from the false prophets we need some kind of criteria.

The following criteria are my criteria which is based upon who I believe were Messengers of God, who met all these criteria. My criteria narrow the playing field and it will eliminate the false prophets, since they will fail to meet the criteria.

The minimum criteria would be:

1. He had good character as exemplified by his qualities such as love, mercy, kindness, truth, justice, benevolence, gracious, merciful, righteous, forgiving, patient.

2. He believed he had been given a mission by God and did everything he could to see that it was carried out. He was completely successful before his death, and he accomplished everything that he set out to do.

3. He wrote much about God and God's purpose for humans both individually and collectively, or scriptures were written by others who spoke for him. He firmly believed that the work he was doing was for the Cause of God.

4. He had many followers while he was alive, and there are still millions who follow his teachings and gather in groups based on the religion he founded.

5. His followers have grown more numerous in recent times.

This is a starting point but there are other questions we would want to ask ourselves before we would be able to believe that a man was a true Messenger of God because that is a bold claim so there should be a lot of evidence to support such a claim.

Another criterion I believe a true Messenger of God would have to meet is that his religion could not contradict or be in opposition to any of the world religions that are already established and he could not talk down any of those religions and say his religion is the only true religion from God.
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Ramakrishna - Wikipedia
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
samtonga43 said:
Right. So Mr B. did not say that he had authority to interpret those records.
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No, He did not say that directly, but He did say the Representative of God among men is the authority, and since Baha'u'llah was the Representative of God among men, that means He had the authority to interpret those records.

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 175-176r.
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
B'ahulla lived in the 1800s is this not true? Was he the last messiah type to come into existence? What about the Morons Joseph Smith? Was he before or after B'ahullah?
 
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