hotep
Member
what is the difference between the Spirit of turth
and the Holy spirit?
becuase you spoke about the different attributes,
which means, different functions.
peace
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Who Was The Spirit Of Truth? And Who Was The Comforter?
- Thread starter hotep
- Start date
what is the difference between the Spirit of turth
and the Holy spirit?
becuase you spoke about the different attributes,
which means, different functions.
peace
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come as in John 16: 7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
The Bible states that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
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I don't know the details; I'm not Christian. I have my opinions on what the Holy Spirit is, but I cannot say whether or not they agree with Christian scripture.
The man in the womb of Elizabeth was John the Baptist, not the Holy Spirit.
I agree that the Comforter cannot be the Holy Spirit, because it it is all-pervasive.
hotep
Member
What question?
One verse speaks of "another Comforter." The next verse refers once again to the same "Comforter." That's what I'm trying to say.
The only problem with the two verses you've cited appears when you place them out of order as you did.
hotep
Member
let me ask you this, why are they different names of the same thing , spoken within the same verse?
This is a very good question.
My answer is poetry: the author started off with a vague term (Comforter), and became more specific (Spirit of Truth).
DadBurnett
Instigator
Does a cloud have parts? Does a volume of water have parts? Does Light have parts? I feel no need to believe that an entity does or does not have "parts."
Do I believe in "the trinity?" It depends on one's definition of trinity. I do believe that God has manifested many aspects of the metaphysical "God-Self."
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I think they all have parts.
Does a meat loaf have parts?I would say so.
Love
Dallas
DadBurnett
Instigator
My meat loaf certainly does ... I toss in pretty much whatever is at hand and the reality of "my" meatloaf is ever changing.
About parts ... does a mind have parts? Tangible parts?
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
Holy Ghost
Holy Ghost
No
Much like when Israel and Jacob are intertwined throughout the Old Testament, we see that God mixes terms throughout the bible. All a test for you.
Why would it mean there are two Holy Ghost? Again, in the Old Testament are there two childrens of God? When God refers and intertwines the names Jacob and Israel, does anyone one actually think God is referring to to separate childrens? Do some studying on that and it might help you.
Example below
If you have an open mind about things you will find God does this a lot in the bible. You might find that Jacob is the same thing as Israel if you bother to look.
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
itwillend, please note that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come as in John 16: 7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
The Bible states that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh) and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised etc. Muhammad (pbuh).
There is one comforter you agree surely not the Holy spirit.Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). http://www.religiousforums.com/foru.../84270-prophet-muhammad-pbuh-prophesised.html
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
The Bible states that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh) and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised etc. Muhammad (pbuh).
There is one comforter you agree surely not the Holy spirit.Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). http://www.religiousforums.com/foru.../84270-prophet-muhammad-pbuh-prophesised.html
hotep
Member
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
You and I will probably never agree on this, but I will clarify my position for the record.
Yes the Holy Ghost was there already before. However, what Jesus was offering were words of comfort because they were about to lose Jesus. Jesus was letting them know that this Holy Ghost (which was already present) would be coming specifically to touch and help them. So in that sense it would not come to help them if Jesus did not leave.
It doesn't have to mean it was not present in the world at the time, but that is just a choice you are making which I respectfully disagree with. So, I understand you views, that this "coming comforter" was something entirely new and not something that already existed.
Clearly we can make the verses work to what ever suits us best.
Let us part in peace.
Why not? He did so in the Bhagavad-Gita quite a bit. ^_^
To clarify something: I do not believe the entire Bible to be the literal Word of God, and the Gospel of John, while a beautiful piece of literature, is the word of the author. It is therefore likely that the historical Jesus never said anything about a comforter at all. (I believe Jesus to have been a wandering Sage.)
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Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
John 16: 7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
Another reasons i can give are :
John 14:16
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
Another Holy Spirit ? you don't think so as far as i understand.
John 15: 26
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
Only Muhammad (pbuh) did.
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will reject it.
3:64
." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
Only if Jesus (pbuh) depart,the comforter will come,these means that the comforter will not come if jesus doesn't depart,the Holy Spirit was already there,it's not the Holy Spirit.
Another reasons i can give are :
John 14:16
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
Another Holy Spirit ? you don't think so as far as i understand.
John 15: 26
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
Only Muhammad (pbuh) did.
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
I disagree the verse should not have two different meanings that contradict.
18:29 of the Noble Quran
Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will reject it.
3:64
." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
Wayofthespirit
I am a Monotheistic Deist
Seem like rather a lot of semantics to me.
But I do see a Holy Spirit theme running through Johns gospel which is better food for thought that the semantics.
Here I see Christ saying remarkably similar things to the Jews initially, and to the disciples later.
And it all revolves around loving Christ by keeping his commandments and thereby receiving the Holy Spirit once he had been given, and, in consequence, ending up being an inseparable unit together with Christ.
John 7:33-39
Then said Jesus, for yet a little while am I with you, and then I go to him that sent me.
You shall seek me, and shall not find me: for where I go, you cannot come.
Then said the Jews among themselves, Where will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go to the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach them?
Jesus therefore, in the last day, that great day of the feast, stood and explained saying, If any man thirst, let him come to me, and drink.
He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this he said of the Spirit, which they that believe on him were yet to receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that He was not yet glorified.)
John 13:33 John 14:26
Little children, (Christ speaking this time to the disciples) for yet a little while I am with you.
But the time is coming when you shall seek me and, as I said to the Jews, Where I go, you cannot come
But if you love me, keep my commandments, and I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom you shall know, for he will dwell within you .
In yet a little while, the world will see me no more; but (there will remain a sense in which) you will see me:
For because I will continue to live, you shall continue to live also.
In that day you shall know that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND YOU IN ME, AND I IN YOU
These things have I spoken to you, being as yet present with you.
But (when I am finally taken up as intimated above) the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you
John 16:4-7
These things have I told you, that when the time shall come, you may remember that I told you of them. I did not tell you of them at the beginning, because I was with you, but now I go my way to him that sent me.
However none of you asks, where are you going?
Instead, you let sorrow fill your hearts because I have said these things to you.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you.
Mike
But I do see a Holy Spirit theme running through Johns gospel which is better food for thought that the semantics.
Here I see Christ saying remarkably similar things to the Jews initially, and to the disciples later.
And it all revolves around loving Christ by keeping his commandments and thereby receiving the Holy Spirit once he had been given, and, in consequence, ending up being an inseparable unit together with Christ.
John 7:33-39
Then said Jesus, for yet a little while am I with you, and then I go to him that sent me.
You shall seek me, and shall not find me: for where I go, you cannot come.
Then said the Jews among themselves, Where will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go to the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach them?
Jesus therefore, in the last day, that great day of the feast, stood and explained saying, If any man thirst, let him come to me, and drink.
He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this he said of the Spirit, which they that believe on him were yet to receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that He was not yet glorified.)
John 13:33 John 14:26
Little children, (Christ speaking this time to the disciples) for yet a little while I am with you.
But the time is coming when you shall seek me and, as I said to the Jews, Where I go, you cannot come
But if you love me, keep my commandments, and I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom you shall know, for he will dwell within you .
In yet a little while, the world will see me no more; but (there will remain a sense in which) you will see me:
For because I will continue to live, you shall continue to live also.
In that day you shall know that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND YOU IN ME, AND I IN YOU
These things have I spoken to you, being as yet present with you.
But (when I am finally taken up as intimated above) the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you
John 16:4-7
These things have I told you, that when the time shall come, you may remember that I told you of them. I did not tell you of them at the beginning, because I was with you, but now I go my way to him that sent me.
However none of you asks, where are you going?
Instead, you let sorrow fill your hearts because I have said these things to you.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you.
Mike
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
You just have to get the last word in ey?
OK, if it makes you feel better, I'll let you have the last word.
We'll get this sorted out on Judgment Day.
Again let us part in peace.
Zhakir!
Look at Luke 24:49 where you'll see Jesus told his Apostles to "stay in the City until the received POWER from on high." This again is covered in Acts 1: 1-4- Move over now to Chapter 2 of Acts, and learn what that POWER enabled them to do. It was at that time {Pentecost} they received the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and because of being in possession of those gifts, that POWER that they now had enabled them to cure every sort of desease, every sort of infirmity; even to resurrecting the dead. To say that the Holy Spirit is Muhammed is absolutely ridicules. The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's awesome power, as those accounts have clearly showed you. Give yourself a serious shake, my boy! Shiner2