Who will get to heaven?

[URAVIP2ME]

King David was one of the most faithful followers of God's plan who ever lived. If he did not ascend to heaven, what chance does any other person have?

... And I find John the Baptist was also one of the most faithful followers, yet John did Not ascend - Matthew 11:11.
Both John and David are part of those of 'John 3:13 ' meaning people who died before Jesus' died.
So, people who died before Jesus' died can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection on earth.
David for example will be a ' prince ' on Earth - Ezekiel 34:24; Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32

 

[Trailblazer]

Since the Bible teaches more than one witness ( Bible writer ) is required - Matthew 18:16
Then, any one verse would have to harmonize with other Bible writers.
So, through the process elimination we can see the internal harmony among the many Bible writers.
Thus, by subject or topic arrangement we can find a complete picture of what the Bible really teaches.

What I was getting at is that Christians or others reading the Bible verses interpret them in many different ways assigning different meanings, and there is no reason to think that one person is any more correct in their interpretation than another person.

So, how can we really know what the Bible means?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, I agree that 'God's will' (God's purpose) will be done on earth as it is being done in heaven.
For in heaven there is No war, No crime, No violence, No sickness, No death in heaven.
So, we are praying for those wonderful heavenly conditions to come to earth.
Revelation 22:1-2 lets us know where such heavenly conditions exist and come from to earth __________

I agree that is what Jesus wanted us to pray for, for the Kingdom of Heaven (heavenly conditions) to come to earth.

So, these verses from revelation are an example of what I was just saying. Do you know how many different interpretations there are of those verses? So what they mean to you is not the same as what they mean to other people. Do you interpret those verses literally or figuratively? I believe there will be a healing of all nations, but the rest I interpret figuratively.

Revelation 22:1-2 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So, how can we really know what the Bible means?

I find there is prayer, the Bible and association.
Since the Bible is not written in ABC order as a dictionary is then we need to search or research Scripture by taking one topic, or one subject at a time and see what the different Bible writers had to say.
The Bible has corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages that shows the internal harmony.
What one subject or topic interests you the most ______________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree that is what Jesus wanted us to pray for, for the Kingdom of Heaven (heavenly conditions) to come to earth.
So, these verses from revelation are an example of what I was just saying. Do you know how many different interpretations there are of those verses? So what they mean to you is not the same as what they mean to other people. Do you interpret those verses literally or figuratively? I believe there will be a healing of all nations, but the rest I interpret figuratively.
Revelation 22:1-2 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

OK, where do we first find the ' tree of life ' but in Genesis.
Genesis is the beginning, whereas Revelation is the grand wonderful climax undoing what Satan and Adam did.
Once Adam and Eve sinned they were denied access to the ' tree of life '.
Sickness and death set in, Jesus taught that the truth would set us free.
We need to be free of sickness and death.
Isaiah 33:24 wrote that the time is coming when No one will say, " I am sick...."
Isaiah 35th chapter describes the good heath people will have.
So, whether you think of Revelation 22:2 as figurative instead of literal Revelation 22:2 is in harmony with the literal teachings of Jesus about the meek inheriting the Earth.
Even the literal healings Jesus performed was giving us a sample preview, or a coming attraction of what he will be doing on a grand-global scale during his 1,000-year reign over Earth when even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth according to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.

 

[Trailblazer]

I find there is prayer, the Bible and association.
Since the Bible is not written in ABC order as a dictionary is then we need to search or research Scripture by taking one topic, or one subject at a time and see what the different Bible writers had to say.
The Bible has corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages that shows the internal harmony.
What one subject or topic interests you the most ______________

The return of Christ.

 

[Trailblazer]

OK, where do we first find the ' tree of life ' but in Genesis.
Genesis is the beginning, whereas Revelation is the grand wonderful climax undoing what Satan and Adam did.
Once Adam and Eve sinned they were denied access to the ' tree of life '

Christians believe that the tree of life was a source of ongoing physical life, that Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life.

What is the Tree of Life?

“In Eden, the tree appears to have been a source of ongoing physical life. The presence of the tree of life suggests a supernatural provision of life as Adam and Eve ate the fruit their Creator provided. Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life. Once they sinned, they were banned from the Garden, separated from the tree, and subject to physical death, just as they had experienced spiritual death. Since Eden, death has reigned throughout history. But on the New Earth, our access to the tree of life is forever restored. (Notice that there’s no mention of a tree of the knowledge of good and evil to test us. The redeemed have already known sin and its devastation; they will desire it no more.)” What is the Tree of Life?

Baha’is believe that the tree of life is the Word of God which bestows eternal life. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits. Eternal life is a quality of life, of being near to God; it is not physical life, but spiritual life. God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in that realm.

It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)

“The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary 4 was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity—that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 124

From: 30: ADAM AND EVE

 

[JJ50]

Christians believe that the tree of life was a source of ongoing physical life, that Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life.

What is the Tree of Life?

“In Eden, the tree appears to have been a source of ongoing physical life. The presence of the tree of life suggests a supernatural provision of life as Adam and Eve ate the fruit their Creator provided. Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life. Once they sinned, they were banned from the Garden, separated from the tree, and subject to physical death, just as they had experienced spiritual death. Since Eden, death has reigned throughout history. But on the New Earth, our access to the tree of life is forever restored. (Notice that there’s no mention of a tree of the knowledge of good and evil to test us. The redeemed have already known sin and its devastation; they will desire it no more.)” What is the Tree of Life?

Baha’is believe that the tree of life is the Word of God which bestows eternal life. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits. Eternal life is a quality of life, of being near to God; it is not physical life, but spiritual life. God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in that realm.

It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)

“The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary 4 was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity—that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 124

From: 30: ADAM AND EVE

Not all Christians are Biblical literalists.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not all Christians are Biblical literalists.

That's good to know.
I guess I have not bumped into any of the others yet.

 

[Maponos]

I would like to add the word ' faithful ' to heroic and pious (righteous ones) as per Revelation 2:10.
Heaven is the heavenly home or abode of the God of the Bible as per 1 Kings 8:39,49.

Heaven, even as a concept, is in ever mythological cycle, as far as I know. It is not exclusive to Abrahamism.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Heaven, even as a concept, is in ever mythological cycle, as far as I know. It is not exclusive to Abrahamism.

However, I find the Bible is exclusive about Abraham.
God's concept given to father Abraham was Not about Heaven, but about Earth - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; 18:18.
God promised Abraham that ALL families of Earth (Not Heaven) would be blessed.
God promised Abraham that ALL nations of Earth (Not Heaven) would be blessed.
Blessed with physical ' healing ' earthly benefits as described at Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 35th chapter.

We are Not instructed to pray for Heaven to come, but ask for God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 to come.
We don't ask to be 'taken away' to the kingdom, Nor ask to be 'taken up' to the kingdom but for the kingdom to come.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the benefits God promised to father Abraham right here on Earth.

 

[Maponos]

However, I find the Bible is exclusive about Abraham.
God's concept given to father Abraham was Not about Heaven, but about Earth - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; 18:18.
God promised Abraham that ALL families of Earth (Not Heaven) would be blessed.
God promised Abraham that ALL nations of Earth (Not Heaven) would be blessed.
Blessed with physical ' healing ' earthly benefits as described at Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 35th chapter.

We are Not instructed to pray for Heaven to come, but ask for God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 to come.
We don't ask to be 'taken away' to the kingdom, Nor ask to be 'taken up' to the kingdom but for the kingdom to come.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the benefits God promised to father Abraham right here on Earth.

I’m a little lost, but there are many deities that are the actual heavens in many mythologies. Ouranos/Caelus, being the most famous. Takamagahara, or Ten, is the Japanese heavenly world.

 

[JJ50]

However, I find the Bible is exclusive about Abraham.
God's concept given to father Abraham was Not about Heaven, but about Earth - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; 18:18.
God promised Abraham that ALL families of Earth (Not Heaven) would be blessed.
God promised Abraham that ALL nations of Earth (Not Heaven) would be blessed.
Blessed with physical ' healing ' earthly benefits as described at Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 35th chapter.

We are Not instructed to pray for Heaven to come, but ask for God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 to come.
We don't ask to be 'taken away' to the kingdom, Nor ask to be 'taken up' to the kingdom but for the kingdom to come.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the benefits God promised to father Abraham right here on Earth.

Abraham, if the guy actually existed, was a wicked father, he was prepared to sacrifice his son in the most appalling way because he believed he was being told to do so by his god!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I’m a little lost, but there are many deities that are the actual heavens in many mythologies. Ouranos/Caelus, being the most famous. Takamagahara, or Ten, is the Japanese heavenly world.

Even after his God resurrected the dead Jesus, then Jesus ascended to heaven as per Hebrews 9:24.
So, there are those who are resurrected to heaven, and they have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6.
Before Christ there was only a 'physical resurrection hope' for those who died before Jesus - John 3:13
Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 talks about a soon coming ' time of separating ' to take place on earth,
and those figurative humble 'sheep'-like people are alive on earth and considered as righteous people by Jesus,
thus they can remain alive on earth, and continue to live on earth starting with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over earth.
They will be here on earth to welcome back those who will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection.
They are offered the same offer of 'everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical earth' as Adam was offered before his downfall.
So, yes, there are many deities connected to heaven, including the Bible's God, but I find according to Scripture that Jesus opened up the way Not only to heaven for some, but opened up the way for many to have a future physical resurrection to take place on earth during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth.
This is why the 'future tense' is used that there ' is going to be a resurrection..... ' as per Acts of the Apostles 24:15.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Abraham, if the guy actually existed, was a wicked father, he was prepared to sacrifice his son in the most appalling way because he believed he was being told to do so by his god!

Abraham was demonstrating his confidence in a physical resurrection to take place.
Since it was Not the time for Jesus' 1,000-year reign over earth is why his God lovingly stopped him.
Remember: Abraham was promised that Messiah would come through Isaac.
Isaac would have to be alive to produce a promised ' seed ' (Offspring) and Abraham knew that.
So, Abraham was certain about a healthy-physical resurrection to take place.
Abraham and Isaac will be resurrected to be part of Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over earth.
They will see the fulfillment of God's promise as per Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; 18:18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The return of Christ.

I find 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is in connection to the return of Christ. Return by ' surprise '.
We are at the ' final phase ' about telling the world about God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14.
This means we are nearing the ' final signal ' of 1st Thess. 5 when the ' powers that be ' will be saying, " Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
This will climax in the final war (Psalms 46:9) of Armageddon.
Armageddon will prove to be a rescue operation for Jesus - Revelation 19:14-16; Isaiah 11:3-4; Proverbs 2:21-22.
The figurative humble ' sheep ' at the soon coming time of Matthew 25:31-33,37 can remain alive on Earth.
( rescued / saved / delivered alive )
Rescue protection for them as mentioned at Psalms 91:1-16; Isaiah 26:20.

 

[Trailblazer]

I find 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is in connection to the return of Christ. Return by ' surprise '.
We are at the ' final phase ' about telling the world about God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14.
This means we are nearing the ' final signal ' of 1st Thess. 5 when the ' powers that be ' will be saying, " Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
This will climax in the final war (Psalms 46:9) of Armageddon.
Armageddon will prove to be a rescue operation for Jesus - Revelation 19:14-16; Isaiah 11:3-4; Proverbs 2:21-22.
The figurative humble ' sheep ' at the soon coming time of Matthew 25:31-33,37 can remain alive on Earth.
( rescued / saved / delivered alive )
Rescue protection for them as mentioned at Psalms 91:1-16; Isaiah 26:20.

Why do you believe that Jesus is going to return?

I do not find any verses in the NT wherein Jesus promised to return to this world. I fact, I find verses where Jesus said He was not coming back.

Jesus said that He had finished the work that God gave Him to do and He was no more in the world and He was going to the Father. This indicates that Jesus never planned to return (I am no more in the world) and there was no need to return since He finished the work God gave Him to do.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Then in the next chapter you have the two verses below. These two verses completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world, or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to be IN this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

So the New Testament is either inaccurate or Jesus is not coming back to this world to rule it.

 

[JJ50]

I reckon why Jesus died he stayed dead, there is no verifiable evidence to suggest otherwise, the Bible is not evidence.

 

[Muffled]

If the god character's idea of good and evil is as screwed up as it appears to be, far better the human vision of it.

I beieve I have a son who drinks to excess and gets a hangover. He thinks that is good.

I believe I never drink to excess and have never been drunk or had a hangover and view the idea of losing my mind in order to get a hangover as a lot less than good.

 

[Muffled]

I reckon why Jesus died he stayed dead, there is no verifiable evidence to suggest otherwise, the Bible is not evidence.

I believe the Bible is evidence. Just because you don't accept it as evidence does not mean that it is not.