As a consolation prize, they did burn down DC... wonder if they would be up for a repeat performance?
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Who won the War of 1812?
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Let'm try.As a consolation prize, they did burn down DC... wonder if they would be up for a repeat performance?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
The British were ultimately the biggest losers, and the Canadians were winners. For Americans it was win lose, but they maintained their independence fro the British and came out on the plus side.
As a consolation prize, they did burn down DC... wonder if they would be up for a repeat performance?
I think the end game will be Trump will fiddle while Washington burns.
Well we got your lion.
Before the British set Washington, D.C., ablaze, the Americans torched a capital city.
Throughout the war, British and American forces were equal-opportunity arsonists. More than a year before British forces incinerated their national capital, American forces in 1813 sacked York (present-day Toronto), the capital of Upper Canada. After an ammunition explosion at a garrison killed 300 Americans, irate U.S. forces responded by burning York’s provincial parliament and other public buildings. A British imperial lion looted by the Americans is still possessed by the U.S. Naval Academy.
10 Things You May Not Know About the War of 1812
Before the British set Washington, D.C., ablaze, the Americans torched a capital city.
Throughout the war, British and American forces were equal-opportunity arsonists. More than a year before British forces incinerated their national capital, American forces in 1813 sacked York (present-day Toronto), the capital of Upper Canada. After an ammunition explosion at a garrison killed 300 Americans, irate U.S. forces responded by burning York’s provincial parliament and other public buildings. A British imperial lion looted by the Americans is still possessed by the U.S. Naval Academy.
10 Things You May Not Know About the War of 1812
Errr...not so much, I would have thought. How serious are you in this position?
Very.
They attacked us.
They failed to conquer us.
Not being defeated is success....it is victory.
What would be "victory" to you....our conquering England?
That is both accurate and slanted towards America. Basically, Britain was doing those things, and the impressment of sailors continued post-war.
Some (by no means all) Americans were pro-war for reasons based more on securing Canadian land.
The reasons for the American war declaration are varied.
No, but nor am I ignorant of this war.
America declared war to achieve several goals, and managed to arguably achieve one (around removing support for Indian independence on American soil).
You could view that as a win, but ultimately it was a stalemate. Given that the stalemate included both maintenance of Canadian borders and continued impress of American sailors by the Royal Navy I find it pretty interesting you'd claim it a win.
'Conquering England' was never a stated goal, so is simply a strawman/joke. I'll go with joke, since I know you well enough to see the humourous intent. I think.
I'll leave you guessing.No, but nor am I ignorant of this war.
America declared war to achieve several goals, and managed to arguably achieve one (around removing support for Indian independence on American soil).
You could view that as a win, but ultimately it was a stalemate. Given that the stalemate included both maintenance of Canadian borders and continued impress of American sailors by the Royal Navy I find it pretty interesting you'd claim it a win.
'Conquering England' was never a stated goal, so is simply a strawman/joke. I'll go with joke, since I know you well enough to see the humourous intent. I think.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Lose lose ... no one won. Especially Tecumseh who decided he would die fighting even though he knew they had lost and the war was basically over. It all depends on whose perspective. For example from the perspective of Tecumseh the only way you could win was by conquering the United States. He wanted Britain in control so they would give his people permanent land. It was a big fight with no results but it did secure presidency for Andrew Jackson. He killed the bank. So that was good news. Unfortunately we have the federal reserve now so it didn't last. People did not remain vigilant. They let Andrew Jackson's big fight against the incursion of central banks be completely wasted. Now we're racking up unprecedented debt thanks to the federal reserve paper debt dollar ponzi scheme.
I would call it a tie. Prior to the War of 1812, US shipping was being harassed and its sailors kidnapped ("impressed") by the British. There was concern over freedom of the seas, which was the overriding concern in US foreign policy at the time. It's true that there was some expansionist sentiment with their eyes on Canada, but there was also a fear that the British might try to take back their colonies. Our ships were being harassed and our people bullied. Americans felt they had every justification to declare war. It was felt that if we didn't stand up for ourselves, we would lose our freedom and independence.
Our forays into Canada were unsuccessful, and the British did burn Washington, although they were turned back at Baltimore. The Treaty of Ghent was signed before the Battle of New Orleans, although just the same, the British were soundly defeated there. After the war, the British left American ships alone, and both sides realized that they never wanted to fight each other again. We never again had any designs on Canada and respected their status within the British Empire. All future border negotiations with Canada were handled peacefully, even despite the notions of "54°40' or Fight!"
The interesting thing about the Battle of New Orleans is that, even though the battle did not affect the outcome of the war, it still had a lasting effect on America projecting its power in territories to our south, then mostly owned by Spain. We acquired Florida from Spain a few years later. It also may have been an influential factor in bringing about the Monroe Doctrine and encouraging even more aggressive expansionism in the West (as long as we stayed out of Canada).
I think the British had pretty much had it with the Americas by that point. They would still keep and protect territory they already acquired, but they were now focusing more on India, the rest of Asia, and Africa. They didn't really want to tangle with the US again, and they would eventually find that it was far more advantageous to invest in America instead.
Mel Gibson tried that once. Didn't work out so well for him.
If it did, it diminished greatly after the defeat of Napoleon. Things quieted down and the maritime relationship improved. The British also realized that they had no cause to deliberately provoke America.
The British tried to justify it by claiming that they were impressing those they thought to be deserters from British ships. But they were also short of sailors and had a war to fight. Once the war was over (with Napoleon), there was little need to do so. Plus, there was a British blockade which raised some hackles.
We had similar problems with the French as well, but to a lesser degree.
True, there was strong expansionist sentiment in the US, but we also still saw it as being ruled by the "Evil Empire," from a US point of view. That was only one angle, not the sole reason for the US declaration of war.
We had better luck against Mexico.
I think there were still fears that Britain might try to retake the colonies, at least enough to make many Americans feel threatened. There were still those with active memories of the last war with Britain.
The drive towards expansionism was also strong, but it all seemed to center around wanting to make the US into the main independent power in the Western Hemisphere. The outcome was that we did hold our own against the British Empire, at least enough to gain respectability. Our attention turned West and South (to the remnants of the crumbling Spanish Empire), while the British had their eyes on Africa and Asia.
There wasn't really any reason for us to fight anymore. We had different spheres of interest. Our relations improved over time. Both sides also had strong economic interests in ensuring that trans-Atlantic commerce remained secure and peaceful. Worked out pretty well in the long run.
Augustus
…
After you had declared war on them...
For the British it was just a pretty insignificant part of the Napoleonic wars, not a war they began to conquer America. While they lost a couple of battles, they achieved the most important objectives of stopping trade with France and maintaining overwhelming dominance of the seas. At the end US shipping and their economy was still at the mercy of the Royal Navy and America didn't make any territorial gains.
Not being conquered in a war you began against an enemy who saw it as a minor theatre in a far more important war takes a fair bit of spin to paint as a glorious victory.
Was that in Max Max or Apocalypto?
Curious George
Veteran Member
Just because he didn't play a grounds keeper does not mean he wasn't playing a Scott in Braveheart.
The US clearly won. They repulsed the British invasions and cemented our sovereignty. The US invaded Canada and was repulsed. That seems like a loss but was really a win. It lead to the eventual independence of Canada from Britain which allows the US to take whatever it wants from Canada via trade without having to occupy a lot of frozen wasteland. If Canada should ever become desirable enough to be worth it, the US could simply walk in and take it over. I mean the Canadian military is no big deal. Seriously. And what kind of a joke of a country has a currency called the loon?
We could all agree that Americastan & Canuckistan both won,
& the sniveling thieving foppish Limeys got their arsches booted.
(@oldbadger must be so ashamed.)