Who Won The War of 1812?

[Vile Atheist]

I only started learning about Canadian history a few years ago, so I find it very interesting. When I was in school, the last thing we learned about Canadian history was the defeat of Montcalm on the Plains of Abraham. Recently, I've learned that many things have happened in Canada since then.

Montcalm was incompetent and set the course for our governance. And not much has happened since then. There is still Anglo-Franco Canadian rivalry, though it has toned down somewhat. We're still essentially British, just sans the accent.

You know what we learn about in Canadian history? We learn about the Vikings that settled in L'Anse aux Meadows and then screwed off because they hate Newfoundland. (Hey, we do too! ) Then fast forward 400, 500 years and some funny Frenchmen in robes begin trading with the local Indians, giving them smallpox blankets in exchange for their secrets on how to survive in the winter. Add some World Wars and Korea and that's pretty much it.

You know how Canada got its name? Watch the Historica Minute.

*some Frenchmen arrive at an Indian village*
French clergy: What is this land called?
Indian Chief:
French clergy: This land. What is its name?
Indian Chief: *speaks Huron* (Subtitles: What, you mean the village over there?) [Village = kanata]
French clergy: Ka-na-ta...
French aide: Uhhh, sir....I'm pretty sure Kanata means those house over there. That village.
French clergy: Don't be a blasted fool! This is a beautiful land and Ka-na-ta is its name.
French aide: But sir! *gets dragged off* *camera pans out*.

http://www.histori.ca/minutes/minute.do?id=10123


Okay lol, so it's not exactly as I remember it. But you get the picture lol.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

...then proceeded to allow hoards of white farmers and speculators to steal the legally titled land of thousands of civilized Cherokee. Ignored a supreme court ruling in favor of the Indians, and finally deport the whole lot of them to the Western wildernessin the dead of Winter.

And your point is...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It was me. I won the war of 1812.

LIES! It was Slartibartfast!

Wrong. It was the international arms merchants.

 

[YamiB.]

I would say that Britain won the war here. America started the conflict so simply ending the war with a restoration of the status quo should not really be considered a winning position, it is simply the best losing one.

The Battle of New Orleans is interesting, but should not really be considered due to the it occurring after the war had ended.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I would say that Britain won the war here. America started the conflict so simply ending the war with a restoration of the status quo should not really be considered a winning position, it is simply the best losing one.

The Battle of New Orleans is interesting, but should not really be considered due to the it occurring after the war had ended.

We may have declared it first, but weren't they just running around conscripting Americans into the navy? I mean.. militarily at the time, they were miles ahead of us. But hey, we couldn't just sit back and take it, could we?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A mere technicality. Besides, apart from the Battle of Baltimore and Dolley Madison's rescuing the portrait of George Washington while Washington was burning, it's the only event of the war that we care to remember.

If it weren't for the fact that Laura Secord chocolate shops operate as "Fanny Farmer" down your way, you'd have a reminder of the Battle of Beaver Dams in most suburban malls.

Actually, I think that's the big reason why they decided not to go with the Laura Secord brand for the American stores.

 

[rojse]

Canada. It wasn't annexed like America had originally planned.

 

[Vile Atheist]

If it weren't for the fact that Laura Secord chocolate shops operate as "Fanny Farmer" down your way, you'd have a reminder of the Battle of Beaver Dams in most suburban malls.

Actually, I think that's the big reason why they decided not to go with the Laura Secord brand for the American stores.

Fitzgibbon (the British commander) was already warned by allied Native warriors that the Americans were going to launch a surprise attack by the time Laura Secord warned him lol (as per Wikipedia).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Fitzgibbon (the British commander) was already warned by allied Native warriors that the Americans were going to launch a surprise attack by the time Laura Secord warned him lol (as per Wikipedia).

Sure... but she walked really far.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Hahahaha. I guess you can call her a hero for trying to warn Fitzgibbon. She didn't really do anything useful, though.

 

[dale1257]

Face it, jebronis. We won.

Depends on how you define 'Victory'.

1. The British finally recognized American Soverignty; They figured that as long as they held Canada, the cost in blood in treasure was not worth the gains if they did win;

2. They pretty much left America to its own devices.

So in the long run, the US won. Personally, I have always looked at 1812 as the conclusion of the Revolutinary War.

I have also found it interesting that, one of the issues of the War of 1812, that of impressing American seamen, nearly came back to haunt us in 1861. The US took to stopping British Vessels and taking Confederate diplomats off them. Britan looked at that as a form of piracy. Nearly went to war over it.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Depends on how you define 'Victory'.

1. The British finally recognized American Soverignty; They figured that as long as they held Canada, the cost in blood in treasure was not worth the gains if they did win;

2. They pretty much left America to its own devices.

So in the long run, the US won. Personally, I have always looked at 1812 as the conclusion of the Revolutinary War.

I have also found it interesting that, one of the issues of the War of 1812, that of impressing American seamen, nearly came back to haunt us in 1861. The US took to stopping British Vessels and taking Confederate diplomats off them. Britan looked at that as a form of piracy. Nearly went to war over it.

They left Canada to its own defence because Britain had more pressing matters in the form of Napoleon in Europe. So it was basically Canadian militia plus Native allies with a few British regulars here and there.

The United States failed in its objective of taking Canada, despite their numerical and military advantage. They didn't make very much, if any, territorial gains.

The purpose of the War of 1812 was for the United States to defeat Britain. It couldn't attack Britain directly because the Royal Navy would have crushed the US Navy on the Atlantic.

From the get-go, the United States had no chance of actually going so far as to take Britain. Their only chance was Canada and they failed at it.

If you want to stretch it, sure, that might be a long-term United States strategic victory. But it is undeniable that the Canadian militia and their Native allies succeeded in defending Canada (otherwise we'd be part of the United States...). No two ways about it, the war was definitely a British/Canadian/Native tactical victory.

 

[JasonII]

The war of 1812 didn’t have anything to do with the Canadian border. America was granted the right to have black slaves to help the nation get developed quicker. England and the king had conditions as to how the blacks would be treated. Once they cleared enough land that white settlers were able to build farms and feed themselves (instead of relying on French Canadians to feed them) the black people where to be released or the British would stop sending settlers to America and the nations population would have been stunted. The south won a few battles but they had to mend American British relations or France would have taken over the whole world. So the blacks got set free, they deserved it. The real winners in 1812 were the Caribbean nations!

 

[Vile Atheist]

The war of 1812 didn’t have anything to do with the Canadian border. America was granted the right to have black slaves to help the nation get developed quicker. England and the king had conditions as to how the blacks would be treated. Once they cleared enough land that white settlers were able to build farms and feed themselves (instead of relying on French Canadians to feed them) the black people where to be released or the British would stop sending settlers to America and the nations population would have been stunted. The south won a few battles but they had to mend American British relations or France would have taken over the whole world. So the blacks got set free, they deserved it. The real winners in 1812 were the Caribbean nations!

You could work for Fox News

 

[dale1257]

^ There's an alternate version by the Arrogant Worms (a Canadian band)

Goes something like:

Oh, we fired our guns and the Yankies kept a-comin'
There weren't quite as many as there were awhile ago
We fired once more and the Yankies started runnin'
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico!

Yep.. Chased them yankies all the way to New Orleans.

 

[Ardipithecus]

Face it, jebronis. We won.

A major strategic goal of America declaring war on Britain was the invasion and acquisition of Canada that would make the US a Continental empire.

The tactical reason was that Britain was tied up in Europe with Napoleon at his height in 1811 and the beginning of 1812. We felt the Brits were distracted and Canada was a tempting fruit. We miscalculated because the British and Germans defeated Napoleon at Waterloo. We were defeated in Canada. We won only defensive battles at Baltimore and New Orleans.

Napoleon was feared to again return and rally the French people to his cause. Britain did not want to have to continue fighting the Americans if Napoleon somehow escaped St. Helena and made another try. Britain wanted to settle the American conflict. America wanted to settle it, and both sides agreed to Status Quo Ante. As such nobody won the war based on post war borders. Britain won because it repulsed an American invasion of its Canadian colony.

The Americans won a psychological victory because they finally won two amazing battles against the odds. A motly crew of Louisiana Cajuns, Creoles, Woodsmen, Pirates, and a small backbone of poorly trained soldiers defeated a much larger British force in New Orleans. Earlier, the Battle of Fort McHenry was fantastic. The Fort held out against the Imperial Navy, the largest navy in the world. Local Maryland militias, volunteer Baltimore street thugs released from jails, shop keepers, and farmers fought against highly trained British troops on land in Baltimore. And this incredibly poor excuse for an army defeated the army of the world superpower.

America was close to being reconquered and lose their independence. Britain considered this in 1813. But the resounding victories at Baltimore and New Orleans made English people unfavourable to continued war.

Ardipithecus

 

[TheNorthernExodus]

Canada is still Canada, and when Americans look North at those rich Alberta tar sands that could maybe have been theirs I dont think America can claim a victory.
The war of 1812 was a side show to the Brits but also a chance to give a bit of a bloody nose to the new upstarts, the fact is it is an event that very much closed a chapter of distrust between cousins, America didnt try anything again against the Brits so I guess a lesson was learned, and in the aftermath though the process was slow the two nations became firm friends, both nations were still exporting and importing my ancestors at the time so the fact you were busy shooting each other was probably a source of joy for them.
At the end of the day America got a bloody nose, Britain regained a little pride, Canada stayed Canada and the three of them would along with Russia save us all from darkness in 20th century.
This family spat helped with that imho.

 

[Pithyoneliner]

I'm with Contentius on this one; US claims of a victory are pretty wide of the mark, fistly the terms of the truce were an absolute return to the status quo anti bellum - which would pretty much make it a draw.

The only argument for a US win is that the US won the last major engagement at New Orleans (as pointed out - actually after the cease fire), but were comprehensively trounced in Canada. All of this being with The Empire fielding it's 'B Team' as we were where busy with Napoleon.

Had the war continued there are a number of reasons to think it would not have gone well for the US, the most obvious being that as things wound down with Napoleon more resources would become available to commit in the American theatre (most importantly the RN)

Secondly the war had very little support amoungs the American populus (particularly New England which continued to trade with the British throughout)

And thirdly our first choice Generals would have become available - Stonewall Jackson versus the Iron Duke, come on there's only gonna be one winner there, if he can beat Napoleon....

I'm willing to accept the verdict of 'draw', but no way a US 'win'!

 

[Sunstone]

The British won the war on the battlefield. The Americans won the war at the negotiations table.

 

[evolved yet?]

A lot of sources I read on this war either claimed it was a stalemate or the Americans won, which I could never figure out why.

That's weird every book I've read said Canada, what's the word? Pwned. But I haven't read any books on it since grade 2.