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Who would you support to be President of the United States: Donald Trump or Hilary Clinton?

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Trumps legacy is a constituency that honestly feels that unbridled narcissism, bigotry, and an appeal to war crimes are really not so bad after all.

He is the rock that you turn over to reveal the maggots.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Oh, I just watched a video this morning about trump and his affinity for torture.
The guy hosting his show gives a pretty solid base for why torture shouldn't be.
I watched only the first couple of minutes. I agree with him except, you don't need to be "liberal" to oppose methods that don't work and are unnecessarily brutal.
 

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a movie scenario. If it worked then destroying some innocents might be necessary, even if they gave wrong leads just to try to give themselves some reprieve? Could you afford a wrong lead in such a situation?

Even FBI's Rober Mueller said the "intelligence" gained from torture by waterboarding suspects was by no means impressive. I doubt he was being idealistic there.
Maybe so, if it is as ineffective as they say, why is it employed? Is it just incompetency?

Then we might question why were tyrants such bad guys to be removed from power, when all they did was torture people who were against them.
I don't agree with removing anyone from power and infringing on another country's sovereignty, just a recipe for more war and destabilisation, unless it poses a direct threat to our own national security.
 

Deathbydefault

Apistevist Asexual Atheist
I watched only the first couple of minutes. I agree with him except, you don't need to be "liberal" to oppose methods that don't work and are unnecessarily brutal.

I don't recall him saying you did.
I know he said something like "this is why us liberals get so pissed off on this issue".
 

Corthos

Great Old One
Eh.... If those are my two choices, I'd rather just write in someone, or something else...

cthulhu.jpg
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I don't recall him saying you did.
I know he said something like "this is why us liberals get so pissed off on this issue".
I might have misunderstood his tone. I'm against torture, but pro guns and death penalty for example. So I get called liberal or conservative depending on the topic and it seems many people seem to have these boxes prepared for opinions.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Trumps legacy is a constituency that honestly feels that unbridled narcissism, bigotry, and an appeal to war crimes are really not so bad after all.

He is the rock that you turn over to reveal the maggots.
Rubbish!
Maggots don't live under rocks.
5. Location
For the same reason you will rarely find maggots without a source of food, you will also rarely find them in an exposed place. Flies prefer to lay their eggs in dark, damp, enclosed areas. If you find maggots, it will likely be in an out-of-the-way spot, such as under a rock, at the bottom of a dumpster or even underneath your carpet. [source]
The point stands.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Maybe so, if it is as ineffective as they say, why is it employed? Is it just incompetency?
It gives the feeling that "we are taking this seriously" while not spending the effort. It's also fun for some folks. Even the witch trials stopped using it, because they saw how useless it was in even finding heretic and as we know they sanctioned all methods available. They would just confess to events that didn't happen give out other people who possibly had nothing to do with heresy.

I don't agree with removing anyone from power and infringing on another country's sovereignty, just a recipe for more war and destabilisation, unless it poses a direct threat to our own national security.
Indeed, but a reason given for going after these people has been torture. If we became like they were, what's the use?
 

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
It gives the feeling that "we are taking this seriously" while not spending the effort. It's also fun for some folks. Even the witch trials stopped using it, because they saw how useless it was in even finding heretic and as we know they sanctioned all methods available. They would just confess to events that didn't happen give out other people who possibly had nothing to do with heresy.
I feel like the US government would have had more reason than 'we are taking this seriously', I guess it must have worked in at least some cases, but fair enough, I'm not an expert on the issue.

Indeed, but a reason given for going after these people has been torture. If we became like they were, what's the use?
I see your point, and agree.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I feel like the US government would have had more reason than 'we are taking this seriously', I guess it must have worked in at least some cases, but fair enough, I'm not an expert on the issue.
I can't think of a reason why the higher ups who ordered it thought it was a good idea. I think Trump's idea that it's a nice punishment if it doesn't work is one of the things they had in mind. They might have wanted to study human psychology thinking we had advanced sufficiently to try again the tried and failed methods. From the video posted by @Deathbydefault there was cited that at least 20% of those tortured were actually innocent in the first place.(I'm not sure if the number is correct, but even small amounts seem way high for me) What made them try it on people who could not provide intel in the first place?
 
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