Who wrote the Gospels

[Kenny]

Interesting......
I am told that The Great Temple had many refectories surrounding the courts where the passover meal was eaten immediately after the sacrificial ceremony.
I am told that the Passover meal could not be held over to another day after sacrifice.

The above two tenets would make the last supper just that, and not a passover meal.

EDIT: And Jesus did not take part in a passover sacrifice.

Did you note what Blu2 wrote about the bread and wine ceremony, thus....
@blü 2 said
There's evidence from at least 400 BCE that the Greeks had a ceremony in which wine, representing Dionusos, and cakes, representing Demeter ('Earth Mother') were consumed as consuming those gods themselves.

Now, although that's a Greek ceremony, the Jewish upper class was so hellenised and into Greek fashion, culture, Gods etc that I do wonder whether this could have permeated its way down into the peasant classes? Let's face it, even the Temple coinage was hellenised!

I'm not sure I can agree.

My reasons would be as follows:

1. Obviously he could hold a Passover meal while hanging on the cross.
2. He said he was Lord of the Sabbath which gives him the authority to adjust accordingly (because of authority)
3. The words mentioned by Jesus indeed do represent a passover meal for those who believe. He was instituting a New Covenant which is different from the previous.
4. Statements made : Matt 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? Matthew 26:17 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

At least that would be my position of thought.

As far as the Greek... please remember that the Jews instituted the Passover meal way before 400 BCE. Could it be they took it from the Jews? Could it be that the Greeks were Jewishised?

 

[oldbadger]

I'm not sure I can agree.

My reasons would be as follows:

1. Obviously he could hold a Passover meal while hanging on the cross.
2. He said he was Lord of the Sabbath which gives him the authority to adjust accordingly (because of authority)
3. The words mentioned by Jesus indeed do represent a passover meal for those who believe. He was instituting a New Covenant which is different from the previous.
4. Statements made : Matt 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? Matthew 26:17 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

At least that would be my position of thought.

OK, I think I can see how a Christian might apply a spiritual position upon 1,2 & 3.

No 4 is an historical account of things asked by the disciples, and they must have wanted and expected the Passover to be taken. It's just that in the three days when Jesus entered the Temple, once to look around, once to demonstrate and picket and once to picket (I believe) and debate that the rituals were not mentioned. But ok, so the disciples did ask.

As far as the Greek... please remember that the Jews instituted the Passover meal way before 400 BCE. Could it be they took it from the Jews? Could it be that the Greeks were Jewishised?

Why not? Religions and cultures flow and merge.
In Northern Europe the main religion, Christianity, is massively influenced by all manner of other religions and cultures.
But in the early first century the Upper class, priesthood, Levite 'family' were hugely influenced by Roman and Greek Fashions, culture and even Gods. They were everything that the Baptist said that they were.

By the way, Aussie members here have previously pointed out that sexual equality in Aus in much less developed than in other Western Countries, I seem to remember that marital and gender discrimination is still 'not good'. @lewisnotmiller is the member to put it all more clearly, but previous posts with him from way back cause me to be unsure about how an Aus SSM vote might go.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

By the way, Aussie members here have previously pointed out that sexual equality in Aus in much less developed than in other Western Countries, I seem to remember that marital and gender discrimination is still 'not good'. @lewisnotmiller is the member to put it all more clearly, but previous posts with him from way back cause me to be unsure about how an Aus SSM vote might go.

The public support it, approximately 60-30 (with the rest undecided/uninterested).
But the government has gone with a postal plebiscite to determine what we'll do.

This appears to be a way of placating the majority, whilst not directly doing something the conservatives would not like.

As long as the young folks vote (and work out how to post a physical letter) we should be fine, but we can be fairly apathetic around these sort of issues, as a nation (in my estimation).

 

[oldbadger]

The public support it, approximately 60-30 (with the rest undecided/uninterested).
But the government has gone with a postal plebiscite to determine what we'll do.

This appears to be a way of placating the majority, whilst not directly doing something the conservatives would not like.

As long as the young folks vote (and work out how to post a physical letter) we should be fine, but we can be fairly apathetic around these sort of issues, as a nation (in my estimation).

Thanks for that info.
I surely hope that 'Equality' will win through.
We're still having to wait for our Church of England to catch up with this fully, but it cannot take many more years.

I often go out cycling early on Sunday mornings and I like to stop/rest, watch/listen during the 8am communion at little churches and chapels all over my cycling routes.

Congregations of 3 or 5 or 7 seem to be the average. If the CofE wants to be a Church rather than just a large financial diocesan board then it may have to focus upon other verses and translations from the bible. ??

 

[Hawkins]

Many Christian conservatives believe that two of the Gospels, Matthew and John were written by disciples who were first hand witness to the words of Jesus they heard. Many scholars argue that none of the Gospel writers were actual witnesses any of the events they wrote.

What is the evidence that would support these conflicting views?

To what extent if any does it matter whether the Gospels were eye witnesses or not?

Gospels are just human accounts of witnessing. A human account of witnessing doesn't demand it to be written by eye-witnesses, as long as the sources are credible and the writer is sincere and dedicated. For an example, Jewish historian Josephus wrote a series of history books. Only a small portion of the books are actually witnessed by himself.

 

[Kenny]

OK, I think I can see how a Christian might apply a spiritual position upon 1,2 & 3.

No 4 is an historical account of things asked by the disciples, and they must have wanted and expected the Passover to be taken. It's just that in the three days when Jesus entered the Temple, once to look around, once to demonstrate and picket and once to picket (I believe) and debate that the rituals were not mentioned. But ok, so the disciples did ask.

True

Why not? Religions and cultures flow and merge.
In Northern Europe the main religion, Christianity, is massively influenced by all manner of other religions and cultures.
But in the early first century the Upper class, priesthood, Levite 'family' were hugely influenced by Roman and Greek Fashions, culture and even Gods. They were everything that the Baptist said that they were.

Very true... isn't that why the prophets rebuked the citizens and rulers of Judah/Israel?

And then the Diaspora?

But the prophets still held the line. There is still a truth IMO.

 

[pearl]

1. Obviously he could hold a Passover meal while hanging on the cross.
2. He said he was Lord of the Sabbath which gives him the authority to adjust accordingly (because of authority)

As a faithful Jew Jesus would have stayed within the Seder, 'the liturgical order of the Passover meal'.

 

[Kenny]

As a faithful Jew Jesus would have stayed within the Seder, 'the liturgical order of the Passover meal'.

He was the seder (for believers in Christ)