Who's in Charge of Adolescents, Parents or Teachers?

[jbg]

The answer isn't as obvious as I think it ought to be. You would think it would be parents, who birthed, nurtured and loved their children,for better or worse, in sickness and in health, but see this NY Times article (link):

But dozens of parents whose children have socially transitioned at school told The Times they felt villainized by educators who seemed to think that they — not the parents — knew what was best for their children. They insisted that educators should not intervene without notifying parents unless there is evidence of physical abuse at home. Although some didn’t want their children to transition at all, others said they were open to it, but felt schools forced the process to move too quickly, and that they couldn’t raise concerns without being cut out completely or having their home labeled “unsafe.”
Many advocates for L.G.B.T.Q. youth counter that parents should stop scapegoating schools and instead ask themselves why they don’t believe their children. They said ensuring that schools provide enough support for transgender students is more crucial than ever, given the rise of legislation that blocks their access to bathrooms, sports and gender-affirming care.

Are these noble experimenters going to be around when/if these kids are caught in the fan?

 

[F1fan]

The child, the parents, mental health professionals, teachers, peers, and defininately not politicians. They are hired to manage our affairs, not judge who children are.

 

[SomeRandom]

I think this is a complex issue. And is more a case by case basis.
A child should be given enough room to decide for themselves as they grow and change. A parent should absolutely be involved but may be too pushy, either way sometimes (it happens.)
Teachers should be working in tandem with parents and health professionals.
Politicians should be kept out of it altogether. Too much toxicity, imo

 

[sun rise]

I wish I could read the entire story but it's seriously paywalled. But you conflate "child" and "adolescent". Adolescence is a time of transition from childhood to adult and thus is a separate category. In addition you conflated "in charge of" and "influence" - two very different things. In addition, gender issues are not very flexible if at all.

So from the little I could actually see, the question is "what should teachers do when a child publicly identifies with another gender in school"?

My answer is that it's none of the teacher's business unless there's a danger of injury or harm unless the student asks for advice.

 

[Stevicus]

The answer isn't as obvious as I think it ought to be. You would think it would be parents, who birthed, nurtured and loved their children,for better or worse, in sickness and in health, but see this NY Times article (link):
Are these noble experimenters going to be around when/if these kids are caught in the fan?

I guess it would be up to the child to decide, ultimately. Whether the schools should be allowed to do this behind the parents' backs is another matter. I don't think the parents own their children, but then, neither do the schools. I'm not even sure why the schools would be involved in these matters anyway. It seems this would be more in the purview of healthcare professionals.

 

[sun rise]

Addendum - I found more info Even liberal parents feel 'villainized' by schools socially transitioning their kids without consent: report The first excerpt was agreement with what I said:

"But dozens of parents whose children have socially transitioned at school told The Times they felt villainized by educators who seemed to think that they — not the parents — knew what was best for their children. They insisted that educators should not intervene without notifying parents unless there is evidence of physical abuse at home," the report read.

Further, the following makes the issue very clear - schools intervened and they should not have:

The Times noted how the issue even garnered support from a transgender psychologist who filed an amicus brief on behalf of parents suing a Maryland school district.

Dr. Erica Adams told the Times, "I don’t want to be erased as a transgender person, and I don’t want anyone’s prerogatives or identity to be taken away from them…but on this one, I’m aligned with people who are willing to advocate for parents."

School districts across the country, from Arizona to Pennsylvania, have been embroiled in controversy after they were caught directing teachers to secretly transition students' gender without informing parents.

 

[The Hammer]

All of the above.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Addendum - I found more info Even liberal parents feel 'villainized' by schools socially transitioning their kids without consent: report The first excerpt was agreement with what I said:

"But dozens of parents whose children have socially transitioned at school told The Times they felt villainized by educators who seemed to think that they — not the parents — knew what was best for their children. They insisted that educators should not intervene without notifying parents unless there is evidence of physical abuse at home," the report read.

Further, the following makes the issue very clear - schools intervened and they should not have:

The Times noted how the issue even garnered support from a transgender psychologist who filed an amicus brief on behalf of parents suing a Maryland school district.

Dr. Erica Adams told the Times, "I don’t want to be erased as a transgender person, and I don’t want anyone’s prerogatives or identity to be taken away from them…but on this one, I’m aligned with people who are willing to advocate for parents."

School districts across the country, from Arizona to Pennsylvania, have been embroiled in controversy after they were caught directing teachers to secretly transition students' gender without informing parents.

I've been listening to a podcast which was talking about Erica Adams and her position on this. Based on that (which was admittedly secondhand) I'd be aligned with her views.
If there is evidence of abuse or distress in the home, things change. But if there is NOT, why wouldn't parents be kept informed when we're talking about minors?? What right does the school have to NOT inform parents, when we're talking about minors, and where there is no history (or even suspicion) of abuse, or negative and controlling behaviour from parents???

 

[We Never Know]

The child, the parents, mental health professionals, teachers, peers, and defininately not politicians. They are hired to manage our affairs, not judge who children are.

Why mental health professionals? For the child or for the child and parents?

 

[The Hammer]

Why mental health professionals? For the child or for the child and parents?

Why not?

 

[We Never Know]

The answer isn't as obvious as I think it ought to be. You would think it would be parents, who birthed, nurtured and loved their children,for better or worse, in sickness and in health, but see this NY Times article (link):
Are these noble experimenters going to be around when/if these kids are caught in the fan?

I would vote for pets over politicians

 

[F1fan]

Why mental health professionals? For the child or for the child and parents?

Because they are best to help guide and advise families on these gender issues in a society that includes many people hostile to who they are. One of my friends in college got his phd in gender psychology. As a grad student he did therapy sessions with people and he and I discussed some of the dilemmas these folks faced. It's sad how many of these folks consider suicide because they are vilified by certain parts of society. Those who vilify trans people, especially kids, does a lot of damage to these people in ways we can't see. It's no wonder they have groups of like individuals so they can feel loved and accepted. Even this is threatened by many conservative forces, and violence.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Nobody should influence a child to be transsexual. I personally don't believe that children and teenagers should be allowed to transition, but when they do, as adults, that decision is only theirs to make, nobody else's. To suggest that parents, teachers or peers should influence that kind of behavior is insane.

 

[danieldemol]

The poll question reads very differently to the OP title question to me.

So for the OP title I would say parents are in charge.

But for who should influence a person in gender issues i would want someone trained enough to provide an informative influence. And I think that teachers absolutely could be trained to educate adolescents about trans issues.

Hopefully that made sense of what appear to be different questions.

In my opinion.

 

[ChristineM]

Parents are in overall charge.
Teachers are responsible for a child's welfare and health and safety while they are supervising/teaching.
A court can take control if needed and assign a responsible person (or persons) to take charge

 

[Curious George]

I've been listening to a podcast which was talking about Erica Adams and her position on this. Based on that (which was admittedly secondhand) I'd be aligned with her views.
If there is evidence of abuse or distress in the home, things change. But if there is NOT, why wouldn't parents be kept informed when we're talking about minors?? What right does the school have to NOT inform parents, when we're talking about minors, and where there is no history (or even suspicion) of abuse, or negative and controlling behaviour from parents???

you must first show there is a duty of care owed to the parents to inform them before you challenge a teacher’s choice of omission. There is certainly an argument to be made that parents are owed such a duty. But I am not so sure that the issue is clear cut.

 

[Curious George]

Nobody should influence a child to be transsexual. I personally don't believe that children and teenagers should be allowed to transition, but when they do, as adults, that decision is only theirs to make, nobody else's. To suggest that parents, teachers or peers should influence that kind of behavior is insane.

I think there might be disagreement on what constitutes “influencing.”

 

[Curious George]

I wish I could read the entire story but it's seriously paywalled. But you conflate "child" and "adolescent". Adolescence is a time of transition from childhood to adult and thus is a separate category. In addition you conflated "in charge of" and "influence" - two very different things. In addition, gender issues are not very flexible if at all.

So from the little I could actually see, the question is "what should teachers do when a child publicly identifies with another gender in school"?

My answer is that it's none of the teacher's business unless there's a danger of injury or harm unless the student asks for advice.

I don’t know that doing nothing is an option. If a child publicly identifies as another gender, the choice a teacher faces is to respect the child’s identification or disregard the child’s identification. I think what is being discussed is whether the teacher should “out” the child to their parent/s regardless of the child’s wishes.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

you must first show there is a duty of care owed to the parents to inform them before you challenge a teacher’s choice of omission. There is certainly an argument to be made that parents are owed such a duty. But I am not so sure that the issue is clear cut.

I disagree. The parents owe a duty of care towards their children. In terms of background here, I am both a qualified teacher, and a parent of three children. As much as I cared for the children I taught, and as much as I owed them a duty of care, it's night and day when placed against the responsibility parents have.

If my child bumps her head at school, the school is obligated to tell me. Why is that?
If we suspect child abuse as teachers here, we are mandated to report that.
And yet, in situations where no such report has been made, and therefore there is no suspicion of child abuse, and where my child is involved in substantive medical decisions, the school might decide not to tell me because...why? Because the child doesn't need support and care from the parent? That seems highly unlikely. Because there is an assumption that the parent would be problematic in this process? Based on what? And who has decided schools are NOT problematic in this process?

 

[Curious George]

I disagree. The parents owe a duty of care towards their children. In terms of background here, I am both a qualified teacher, and a parent of three children. As much as I cared for the children I taught, and as much as I owed them a duty of care, it's night and day when placed against the responsibility parents have.

If my child bumps her head at school, the school is obligated to tell me. Why is that?
If we suspect child abuse as teachers here, we are mandated to report that.
And yet, in situations where no such report has been made, and therefore there is no suspicion of child abuse, and where my child is involved in substantive medical decisions, the school might decide not to tell me because...why? Because the child doesn't need support and care from the parent? That seems highly unlikely. Because there is an assumption that the parent would be problematic in this process? Based on what? And who has decided schools are NOT problematic in this process?

I agree that there is a special duty of care. But that doesn’t mean that duty of care extends to informing the parent of anything and everything.

I think that a duty to inform is much more nuanced than you would like to believe. The clearest example I can think of is the duty between a doctor and patient. While a duty to inform does exist in this relationship (based on informed consent) even this duty is not so clear cut: Doctors are required to provide enough information so the patient can make a sufficient decision. This does not require doctors to disclose all information and there are even exceptions to their duty to inform.

I am not over here saying teachers do not have a duty to inform parents. I am saying that it is more nuanced and not a clear cut situation.

to refute this you have stated that a teacher owes a duty to disclose a student getting a bump on their head. I think that this is not necessarily true. Bumps can range from getting hit in the head in a dodgeball game to falling down stairs and losing consciousness. A teacher does not have a duty to report every detail to the parents. I think that if we went back and forth over where the line is, we could probably tease out that the line is reasonable information that is significant to providing safety and care for the child.

Next you toss out mandated reporter laws. I am not sure how that is relevant, but, here, a mandated reporter is required to report when there is a reasonable suspicion of child abuse or neglect. Are teachers there required to disclose to the parent when they have made a report? Here, they are not. This is, in part, because that disclosure may have impact the child’s safety. Again we see a line forming around the duty to the child.

now let us turn back to the topic at hand. You asked several questions concerning the reasoning behind a teacher choosing not to inform the parent.

The first was whether “the child doesn't need support and care from the parent?” I don’t know if a disclosure about gender automatically requires continued support and care from the parent. Is there some particular support and care that a parent must give, that they are not already giving, based on that disclosure? I can certainly think of actions that may be supportive or helpful, but I have a hard time thinking of any that are necessary.

the second question you asked was whether there is an assumption that the parent would be problematic in this process? Based on what? Well, potentially. There are large numbers of parents who would react in ways that are harmful to a child if they were provided this information. Teachers and schools are not in the best position to determine whether this would be the case or not. If there is a possibility that sharing information will cause harm to the child or put the child in danger, do you believe that teachers should be required to share this information regardless of the risk that it entails? I would think this is direct opposition to the reasoning for any duty to inform, if such a duty exists. Then you ask for evidence that establishes a risk. Are teachers required to investigate each family and their beliefs to ascertain how that family will react?

but there were a couple questions you didn’t ask.

will it be harmful to the child’s mental health to share this information with a parent prior to the child feeling ready to share that information?

is there any duty to confidentiality owed to the child and under what circumstances, if there is such a duty, may that confidentiality be breached? Does this fit within that?

Again, I am not over here saying teachers shouldn’t share, or even that there is no duty to share. Someone may have a valid argument that shows 1) there is a duty to inform; 2) that duty to inform incudes disclosures about gender 3) there is no exception. I do not believe you have provided this.

personally, I am more comfortable leaving discretion with the teachers and their professional discretion, than saddling teachers with legal duties or trying to provide some unwavering standard to which teachers must adhere.