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Who's managing hell?

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In Islam, there is 3 phases to hell and it's manifestation.

(1) In this life, hell surrounds disbelievers but they don't perceive it. Believers also have to make their way through it, and it's our low desire and selfishness personality, that is it. Prophets (a) are such that they walk upon it while it's flames never ignite in this world, and they show the way to safety.
(2) In the life after death, Angels constantly bring upon it's reality to a degree, but it's still not fully manifest, even though the punishment in the grave is true, it's not a full reality and only partial.
(3)On last day, it will appear fully, and everyone will perceive it with full sight, and it's reality will become clear. There are 19 Angels upon hell, and they are said to be severe Angels that obey God in all that he commands, and so won't have mercy. If they are ordered to punish and cut and torture per God's command, they do it fast, without hesitation or argument.

Now it might seem it's too few, 19 Angels, but that is because people think good and evil powers are near equal, and that miracles can be attributed to self-learned magic without God's permission, but Quran argues, to show miracles are reasonable proofs, that the order of the universe to be in God's hand, has to have his forces with more power. It's to the extent that his forces, 19 Angels can keep all sorcerers, Jinn, humans, all in hell, without risk. The Prophets miracles are such power displayed, and it proves they are trusted by God.

If miracles weren't proof, evil forces can rule the universe and next world.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I was having a chat with a friend about hell - my life is fascinating, I know - and this idea came to my mind. The bible says that God expelled Satan and his demons and they came to the vicinity of the earth, causing all sorts of trouble. My question is, if Satan and his troops are around the earth, who's managing hell?
Personally I don't believe in hell, but I'm trying to come up with some sort of reasoning. I know a lot of people who still live in fear of eternal suffering.

Multitasking?

The Christian idea is that after Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden, God put Satan in charge of the earth. I can understand evil being stronger than good, and that God is powerless to stop or restrain Satan, but to cooperate with Satan is, in itself, evil. To allow evil, pain, hunger, stink, and other such bad things to exist, is, in itself, evil. Does that mean that God is evil? Perhaps God is merely using Satan to punish us.

I suppose that those who pray to God believe that God can hear the prayers of everyone on earth simultaneously. An entity that can see the future and knows everything, likely exists outside of time (as we know it), or their time scale is not the same as ours. If so, multitasking would be rather easy for them.

Like the man who poured syrup on his head, and scratched his pancake wondering why he did that, multitaskers sometimes confuse one task with another. Lets say you want to write a letter to the general who is in charge of troops in Iraq, and write to your wife at the same time. The general might be miffed that you call him darling and promise to kiss him the next time you see him (his men might wonder a bit too....but they don't ask and don't tell).

Some people are Satanists, and they believe that Satan wants us to have a good time (as opposed to Puritans who believe that it is a sin to dance, sing, or enjoy anything). They feel that idle hands are the tools of the devil.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Nope no thoughts
I didn't mean there no other demons. I meant that no demon is supported by the bible to be running hell.

Opinion of Clara Tea (and bible quotations):

According to Revelation, two demons (father dragon and son beast) were put in charge of the most powerful nation in the world (United States) and attacked Babylon Iraq, and corrupted it (wouldn't allow fair elections, for example), and it is a nation known for sin (such as sex scandals like the one that George Bush had with Jennifer Fitzgerald). This is why Revelation 17:18 calls the United States the Whore of Babylon. Recently, the US withdrew from Iraq, and now the people are free, once again, to vote in fair elections, and what we see is that the Taliban is back in power once the US dictatorship is over.

So, though Satan, himself, might be somewhere, his minions (like the Bush presidents, according to the bible), do his bidding on earth.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Hello SayerofHello.
We agree on Abaddon(Apollyon) who managed the bottomless pit, being one of God's "good" angels.
I'm just curios as to how you worked it out though.

Which scripture do you use to show that the Devil 'will be cast into hell along with his followers in the end days'?

Also, didn't Satan reside in heaven, and go and come as he pleased? Job 1:6-7 Job 2:1-2
That would mean he was not banished from heaven, until Revelation 12, when Michael fought him, right?.. and that was the same time Christ took rulership of the kingdom. Right?

Why would they put a good angel in a dark and hot place like the pit of hell? Should they give him a promotion and a nice corner office with air conditioning and a cute secretary (though I don't know if that would be heaven for the secretary)?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I believe Abaddon was good because he is referred to as an angel like Lucifer and his fallen who were originally good angels and if he manages the pit then it is a good angel who comes down from heaven with the key so I assume it is managed by the good guys since they have the key. I use your quote of Rev 20:1-3 as one source for end days being when Satan goes to Hell along with the fact that Satan was cast down to Earth to walk amongst us. In the book of Job God meets with his people and Satan is there, chapter 1, verse 7 says And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. He later meets Jesus in the desert and tries to recruit him.This places Satan cast down to Earth very early in the timeline and suggests he doesn't go to hell until later.

Surely Satan could find someone other than Jesus to recruit, since they don't see eye to eye. How about being pals with one of the demon presidents who attacked Iraq?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I think that even atheists, by default have a very clear idea of what good and evil are. And how overwhelmingly different they are.
A very good anthropologist used to say that. That, regardless of theistic beliefs, human beings keep in their own conscience that these two entities are like day and night. One the opposite of the other.

That said, the beliefs about afterlife depend on cultural and historical influences.

Good and evil often look alike to those who don't understand the difference. For example, in Revelation, God ordered us not to make war against Iraq (and not to kill). President W. Bush, defying God, kept pretending that he was on the side of God and was, in his words, "fighin' evil." That's how good Christians ended up doing great evil, and defied God, because they couldn't tell the difference between good and evil.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
I was having a chat with a friend about hell - my life is fascinating, I know - and this idea came to my mind. The bible says that God expelled Satan and his demons and they came to the vicinity of the earth, causing all sorts of trouble. My question is, if Satan and his troops are around the earth, who's managing hell?

This is so elementary. :cool:

Obviously a manager has to be around his base of operations. If Satan and his subordinates are on earth, then it means to reason that earth is hell.

Yes, I know it is very simplistic, but sometimes the simple and obvious is often overlooked.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I think that even atheists, by default have a very clear idea of what good and evil are. And how overwhelmingly different they are.
A very good anthropologist used to say that. That, regardless of theistic beliefs, human beings keep in their own conscience that these two entities are like day and night. One the opposite of the other.

That said, the beliefs about afterlife depend on cultural and historical influences.

" Even atheists"
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I was having a chat with a friend about hell - my life is fascinating, I know - and this idea came to my mind. The bible says that God expelled Satan and his demons and they came to the vicinity of the earth, causing all sorts of trouble. My question is, if Satan and his troops are around the earth, who's managing hell?
Personally I don't believe in hell, but I'm trying to come up with some sort of reasoning. I know a lot of people who still live in fear of eternal suffering.

I believe God is always in control of everything so that means Hell also. As for the inhabitants of Hell, I don't believe any of them have any control at all.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
This is so elementary. :cool:

Obviously a manager has to be around his base of operations. If Satan and his subordinates are on earth, then it means to reason that earth is hell.

Yes, I know it is very simplistic, but sometimes the simple and obvious is often overlooked.

I believe Satan wants to be around the people he has bamboozled and they are on earth and he does not wish to be in Hell but God will send him there anyway.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Why would they put a good angel in a dark and hot place like the pit of hell? Should they give him a promotion and a nice corner office with air conditioning and a cute secretary (though I don't know if that would be heaven for the secretary)?
Why do you think the abyss is a dark and hot place like the pit of hell? Did the angel tell anyone that? Did God?
As far as I have read, no scripture describes the abyss.

Actually, what John is seeing in vision, are not physical things.
For example, the great chain the angel binds Satan with, cannot be a literal chain, as none can hold a spirit creature. Fire cannot harm a spirit.

So how are people reading these things, is the question. Is it with understanding?
Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says . . . (Revelation 2:7)
How will they hear unless... Romans 10:14-15
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I think this depends also on, what is meant with hell. In Bible there is Hades that is called hell and Gehenna that is also called hell. By what the Bible tells, in the end Hades will be thrown to the fire lake, second death, Gehenna. And it is the place where soul and body are destroyed.

...Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

So, if we are speaking of Hades, I think it could be called like a prison for unrighteous, where they wait final judgement. I believe it is not managed by Satan and his minions. And the fire lake, I think it is the place where Satan and his followers will be utterly destroyed permanently. I don't think it is a place managed by Satan and his folk. I think the fire lake is controlled by God.
A prison for the dead? Why? What can the dead do?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I believe Satan wants to be around the people he has bamboozled and they are on earth and he does not wish to be in Hell but God will send him there anyway.
Where in the Bible did you read that God will send Satan to hell Muffled?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.......... As for the inhabitants of Hell, I don't believe any of them have any control at all.

Since Jesus and the OT both teach ' sleep ' in death then No one in biblical hell has any control.
( John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
So, while dead Jesus was in hell (biblical grave) Jesus had no control at all - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
A prison for the dead? Why? What can the dead do?
I believe the dead can do nothing - nothing but unconscious sleep - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; John 11:11-14.
To me we the still living are in this world's prison precinct.
We only have partial liberty now while we wait for deliverance from the death sentence.
We are still walking around the prison yard, not yet shut up in our prison cells ( aka tombs )
Although Jesus will save from the death trap (right now salvation is by hope) because we have not yet experienced actual delivery from the Power of Death.
It is not until the awakening of the sleeping world in the morning (Resurrection Day) when pardoned sinners will be awakened from death's slumber to come forth to favorable conditions.
( conditions such as found at Acts of the Apostles 24:15; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 35th chapter; 1 Corinthians 15:26 )
Because Jehovah God is the pardoning Governor sin and death will not forever reign on Earth.
There will be No death warrant, No death watch, and hopes will never die.
ALL this is possible because Jesus died a Hero's death for us.
Jesus, as Redeemer, being given full power and control over the prison house of death.
The great prison warden (aka Satan our great jailer) will never have the jail keys because Jesus, our Parole Officer, has the keys to unlock death's prison house of detention for us - Revelation 1:18.
Thus, out of the dungeon comes the 'jail birds' (us) pardoned for our errors.
We will hear and obey the voice of Jesus to come forth and get up and walk.
Walk the Highway of Holiness. Up, up, up out of the valley of the shadow of death (No, Not Death Valley)
but up to the original perfectly healthy life of peace and blessings originally meant for righteous mankind.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I believe God is always in control of everything so that means Hell also. As for the inhabitants of Hell, I don't believe any of them have any control at all.
That's not true.

I recently discovered that Bob from accounting was put in charge.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
A prison for the dead? Why? What can the dead do?

Ok, maybe storage would be better word. :D

All though, Bible indicates that those who die bodily, their spirits are alive either in Hades or Paradise, waiting the final judgment.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Ok, maybe storage would be better word. :D

All though, Bible indicates that those who die bodily, their spirits are alive either in Hades or Paradise, waiting the final judgment.
I read that the spirit returns to the true God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
Where did you read that "their spirits are alive either in Hades or Paradise, waiting the final judgment"?

Where does that idea of a living spirit come from? I heard person say it, but I have never read it.
I read these...
Job 27:3 - All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

(Job 34:14-15 - 14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Psalm 104:29 - Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Isaiah 42:5 - Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Thhese all harmonize with the very first scripture that tells us what man is made of - dust, and spirit (breath of life). Genesis 2:7
Isn't that what you read?
What is this "living spirit" you speak of?
 

1213

Well-Known Member
I read that the spirit returns to the true God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
Where did you read that "their spirits are alive either in Hades or Paradise, waiting the final judgment"?...

Maybe soul would be better word, but the idea comes from here:

A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. He cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.’ “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in like manner, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ “He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’ “But Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ “He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’”
Luke 16:20-31
 
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