Who's more racist... the religious or the non-religious?

[1robin]

while god can do whatever he wants, cause he's god...

Once again confusing capability with will. I have addressed this issue in the other thread.

 

[Oryonder]

I have a biblically consistent view on what a Christian should be. His position requires and he has attempted to dismiss Paul, John, Commentators, and portions of the old and new testaments. It is the fact that his identity contradicts his actions that causes me trouble not the fact that he has a different idea of what a Christian is. That is between us and I will not discuss it further.

My stated religion has nothing to do with your troubles. Your troubles stem from my pointing out the contradictions in your own position from a Biblical perspective.

What I have shown you is a pile of Biblical and historical evidence that Paul contradicts Jesus and James. What I have also shown is that the words of Jesus in John contradict the words of Jesus in Matt.

Rather than defend your position you now want to claim that you are troubled by my Christianity. This is by definition ad hominum ... logical fallacy ..and a method of avoiding thinking about evidence that conflicts with your beliefs. What is also is doing is demonizing someone that holds a different perspective than yourself.

This does not mean that you are under the influence of destructive mind control but it is exactly some of the indicators of folks that are.

You do not have to believe the evidence I have presented but the fact that question these contradictions does not make one "not a Christian".

As I discussed in my earlier post .. "Real" seminaries teach that the Bible has been altered over time.

You are welcome to a version of Christianity requires you not to question anything that conflicts with your beliefs. Just because someone does not choose to ignore conflicting or contradictory views, or holds a perspective that differs from yours is no reason to demonize them.

The conversation on evolution and the blanket absolute claims you were making has zero to do with whether one is a Christian or not.

Sorry to burst your bubble but most Christians on the planet do not believe in many aspects of Creationism.

 

[McBell]

I have a biblically consistent view on what a Christian should be.

And yet there are those who say you do not...
So which of you is wrong?

It is the fact that his identity contradicts his actions that causes me trouble not the fact that he has a different idea of what a Christian is.

By what authority do you claim to be some sort of "True" Christian and that anyone who interprets the Bible differently from you is not a "True" Christian?

That is between us and I will not discuss it further.

Between who?
You and him?
You and god?
Him and god?
You and him and god?

 

[McBell]

Am I to except your sterling credentials to pronounce the death of this equine philosophy when the greates eveolutionist of all time and the most popular modern evolutionist agree with it.

Really?
Please quote where "the most popular modern evolutionist" agrees with the racism presented in Darwins old out dated book.

Dawkins was atleast honest enough to admit that he couldn't find a way consistent within atheistic evolution to determine what Hitler did was actually wrong or right. That is exactly my point. Atheism is morally impotent and evolution has some posative and some negative moral implications. I just can't stand when the evolutionists adopt all the good implications but do not have the courage of their convictions to accept the bad ones.

So, are you going to support your claim?
Or is what you said not what you meant?

You lost me. I posted what he said. Are you balking because it wasn't a quote. I find that trivial but will provide it if necessary. I have concluded that the title of this thread will only attract people who I prbably wont enjoy a discussion with so as soon as your issue here is resolved I am out. I should have left this thread to die in peace.

Seems to me you made a statement you cannot support and are now trying to back peddle you way away from it...

But that is fine.
I am used to it from you.

 

[Oryonder]

Seems to me you made a statement you cannot support and are now trying to back peddle you way away from it...

But that is fine.
I am used to it from you.

I would think that 90% of the folks that come in here are quite devoted, in one way or another, to their religious beliefs or lack of belief in religion.

There are plenty of other forums that delve into politics and other issues and most people do not even go to those because they are not prone to thinking about such things.

Many that come here do so because they have a specific interest in religion and so are quite knowledgable.

Arguments that do not hold water get shot down pretty quickly.

 

[waitasec]

Once again confusing capability with will. I have addressed this issue in the other thread.

link.

or please elaborate.


if god wills it, it happens...like murdering everyone except a drunk and his family ... and then saying murdering is wrong.

 

[waitasec]

Are you trying to assert that these scriptures are commanding every Christian to do every one of these things? For example the bible also says that the gift of healing, tongues, prophecy, and interpretation may be given to some individuals but it is not the universal possesion of every Christian. So it is not talking about the attributes and actions of every individual Christian. It is saying that among Christians there will be these things going on. That is exactly what you see in reality. The poison and snake issue is not a literal commandment for all Christians. It means that there will be instances where a Christian will live through what should have killed him. There is also another application concerning Paul specifically I think but I don't know much about it. Why do you get the idea this verse is commanding Christians to go wrestle snakes and drink drano. Thats a very silly position. It is no wonder you don't Believe in God. I wouldn't believe in the God you cobbled up either. He sounds like a lunatic.

no it says plainly....whoever believes can do these things without bringing physical harm

What in the world are you talking about this time? The new testament forbids persecution of any one. That is the covenant we live in.

and DOMA isn't supported by the religious right...gotcha.

 

[1robin]

My stated religion has nothing to do with your troubles. Your troubles stem from my pointing out the contradictions in your own position from a Biblical perspective.

What I have shown you is a pile of Biblical and historical evidence that Paul contradicts Jesus and James. What I have also shown is that the words of Jesus in John contradict the words of Jesus in Matt.

Rather than defend your position you now want to claim that you are troubled by my Christianity. This is by definition ad hominum ... logical fallacy ..and a method of avoiding thinking about evidence that conflicts with your beliefs. What is also is doing is demonizing someone that holds a different perspective than yourself.

This does not mean that you are under the influence of destructive mind control but it is exactly some of the indicators of folks that are.

You do not have to believe the evidence I have presented but the fact that question these contradictions does not make one "not a Christian".

As I discussed in my earlier post .. "Real" seminaries teach that the Bible has been altered over time.

You are welcome to a version of Christianity requires you not to question anything that conflicts with your beliefs. Just because someone does not choose to ignore conflicting or contradictory views, or holds a perspective that differs from yours is no reason to demonize them.

The conversation on evolution and the blanket absolute claims you were making has zero to do with whether one is a Christian or not.

Sorry to burst your bubble but most Christians on the planet do not believe in many aspects of Creationism.

I told you your actions are so contrary to your claimed identity IMO that it leaves me with an unsettled impression. I do not feel comfortable discussing things with a person like that. Until I can get a handle on why every single post I have seen by you has been detremental to orthedox Christianity and most times in defence of the position opposed to it I will not debate you. It is not your position it is the contradiction in the position with the claimed identity that bothers me. How did creationism get invloved in this?

 

[1robin]

And yet there are those who say you do not...
So which of you is wrong?

Compare what we have said to the bible and decide yourself it isn't discreet mathematics.

By what authority do you claim to be some sort of "True" Christian and that anyone who interprets the Bible differently from you is not a "True" Christian?

Quote the statement where I said that.

Between who?
You and him?
You and god?
Him and god?
You and him and god?

You only need to know that us doesn't include you.

 

[1robin]

Seems to me you made a statement you cannot support and are now trying to back peddle you way away from it...

But that is fine.
I am used to it from you.

I quoted Dawkins who said He could not find a reason in evolution to declare what Hitler did was in fact wrong. Are you attempting to imply that I said he agreed and here he says he doesn't have a reason to disagree? If thats what you are obsessed with fine not absolutely perfect word choice. However the implications are very similar. If that was all it was why didn't you say so two days ago and save all this time I wasted.

 

[1robin]

link.

or please elaborate.

I did in the other link.

if god wills it, it happens...like murdering everyone except a drunk and his family ... and then saying murdering is wrong.

This deserves no response.

 

[1robin]

no it says plainly....whoever believes can do these things without bringing physical harm

Virtually ever Christian ability given in the bible has qualifications that make it possible. Many are even referred to as gifts and are selectively given based on other conditions mentioned in other places. It is like saying that even though a person has the ability to pass a certain test if they spend all their time thinking about the fight they had with their spouse the night before they may fail it anyway. In addition this is not a command it is a capability that also has conditions implied and stated in other places. We discussed this weeks ago and I have forgotten what it was brought up for. It was spoken specifically to the apostles and I have seen interpretations that it was meant for them (I am not saying I agree but I do not rule it out either). In fact some of the apostles did these specific things. I believe Paul drank poison. I heard an interview many years ago by some nobody reporter who came from New York to Scottsborough, Al which is about 30 minutes from where I live. Scottsborough is the only place where snake handleing is a widespread practice (like a 3-5 churches). He said that on many cases he saw snakes go completely limp. He went there to show how stupid the practice was and so I gave him some principle of embarassment credit however I in no way support the practice. In the very least a level af faith would be required as a condition.

and DOMA isn't supported by the religious right...gotcha.

That would seem to me if true to prove that religous people are not persecuting any one like I said so how exactly does that get me?

 

[McBell]

Compare what we have said to the bible and decide yourself it isn't discreet mathematics.

To what end?
To have you whine and cry with about how I am not as "in line" with the Bible as you?

I think you have done enough ego masturbation in this thread...

You only need to know that us doesn't include you.

More tail tucking...

 

[Oryonder]

I told you your actions are so contrary to your claimed identity IMO that it leaves me with an unsettled impression. I do not feel comfortable discussing things with a person like that. Until I can get a handle on why every single post I have seen by you has been detremental to orthedox Christianity and most times in defence of the position opposed to it I will not debate you. It is not your position it is the contradiction in the position with the claimed identity that bothers me. How did creationism get invloved in this?

My perspective is different than yours .. This does not make your perspective wrong or my perspective right.

I have evidence for my perspective and you have evidence for yours.

I do not know for a fact that my perspective is right. Can you say the same ?

I look at the evidence and let the chips fall where they may. I believe that the reason God gave humans brains is so that they use them.

You may not like that I question orthadox beliefs such as the Trinity. The evidence shows that Christians prior to Constantine (including the early Church fathers)did not believe in the Trinity.

Were these folks not Christians ?

The majority of serious Bible Scholars state that the Bible as we have it today contains additions, subtractions, and interpolations.

Upon finding this out I had to ask .. which parts are really from Christ and which parts are not ?

Do you ask yourself this question ?

 

[waitasec]

Virtually ever Christian ability given in the bible has qualifications that make it possible. Many are even referred to as gifts and are selectively given based on other conditions mentioned in other places.

you mean like the gift of tongues and interpretation?


please.

It was spoken specifically to the apostles and I have seen interpretations that it was meant for them (I am not saying I agree but I do not rule it out either).

no it wasn't. whoever believes, means whoever believes...

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

that was for the disciples​

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, "

means whomever they preach the gospel to​

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe:

those who believe are not the disciples...all those sign will accompany those they preached the gospel to and believe by not acting on their belief i would presume​

edit:
the idea that there are apologetics for such a straightforward passage, that are hell bent to make it ambiguous is actually sort of hysterical to me...
but that's just me.

 

[waitasec]

This deserves no response.

it's not a question of deserving...it more like, you can't respond.

 

[1robin]

To what end?
To have you whine and cry with about how I am not as "in line" with the Bible as you?

I think you have done enough ego masturbation in this thread...



More tail tucking...

What a meaningless mess. I regret resurrecting this stupid thread. I said I would stick it out until I had resolved what ever it is you have been driving at. Since you are now just randomly driving around in aimless directions, then I am outahere.