Whose Faith is Blind - Theists or Atheists?

[Man of Faith]

Theists have:
The testimony of others – Whether it be growing up in a believing home or seeing others in church and worshiping, theists have the testimony of others of what God has done or doing in their lives.
Written history – Whether or not you accept the Bible or other religious texts as truth, theists have them and they point to God.
General revelation – When you see a painting you know there is a painter, just like when you see the earth, sky, and humans you know there has to be a creator.
Jesus or other religious leader – Theists have Jesus and other religious leaders that have supposedly performed miracles or have been ordained by and point to God.
Our own spirits – People have a spiritual craving to discover God and to worship something beyond self.

Atheists see all of the same things yet they choose not to believe which leads me to consider that it is the atheists that blind themselves to reality and have blind faith.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Whose Faith is Blind - Theists or Atheists

Both, in my opinion.

 

[sandandfoam]

Our own spirits – People have a spiritual craving to discover

I'm a Christian yet this is the only one on your list that I share with you.
I also share it with most atheists on here

 

[Reverend Rick]

An absence of proof is not proof positive for either side.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some corrections are in order:
- I do not choose disbelief. It is a way of seeing things which I find unavoidable...much like my disbelief in 2+2=5. There's no "choice" involved.
- No faith is needed, since I lack certainty. After all, one cannot prove the absence of gods, so my position is speculative.

Anyone who believes in the inerrant absolute truth of things metaphysical would need faith though. But I don't think that is true of all believers either.

 

[Magic Man]

Whose Faith is Blind - Theists or Atheists?

Theists. That was an easy one.

 

[Man of Faith]

Some corrections are in order:
- I do not choose[/i] disbelief. It is a way of seeing things which I find unavoidable...much like my disbelief in 2+2=5. There's no "choice" involved.
- No faith is needed, since I lack certainty. After all, one cannot prove the absence of gods.

With all the evidence in the OP that point to a God, you have to choose to ignore it or not accept it, which is choosing to not believe.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Theists have:
The testimony of others – Whether it be growing up in a believing home or seeing others in church and worshiping, theists have the testimony of others of what God has done or doing in their lives.

No, theists have testimony of things that people attribute to God.

Atheists have this testimony... but for many, many conflicting and mutually exclusive religious claims. Since they can't all be simultaneously true, this means that testimony does not necessarily imply truth and can be disregarded just as easily as you disregard the testimony of religions that you don't believe in.

Written history – Whether or not you accept the Bible or other religious texts as truth, theists have them and they point to God.

But they all point to different, conflicting gods. Again, this shows that you can have a religious text without it being rooted in truth at all.

General revelation – When you see a painting you know there is a painter, just like when you see the earth, sky, and humans you know there has to be a creator.

No, you don't. These are your preconceptions talking.

We can recognize a painting as a human creation because we've seen painters paint and we know how paint works. All we have as a similar basis to infer design in "the earth, sky and humans" is a bunch of unsupported religious claims and a human hard-wired predisposition to attribute agency to things.

Jesus or other religious leader – Theists have Jesus and other religious leaders that have supposedly performed miracles or have been ordained by and point to God.

And again: when we take them all together, they all point to different gods. If we take Jesus' claims seriously, then we must reject Muhammad or Buddha. If we accept Muhammad, we must reject Jesus (as he's portrayed in the New Testament, anyhow) and Buddha... etc., etc.

You're trying to portray all of religion as a united front when it's really not. For any religious belief that's preached by one group, you can find some other group that preaches the exact opposite. This doesn't point to them all posessing some overarching truth; it points to a situation where all of them are talking out of their butts about things that they lack real knowledge of.

Our own spirits – People have a spiritual craving to discover God and to worship something beyond self.

I won't deny that you were taught to have this, but I have no such craving.

Atheists see all of the same things yet they choose not to believe which leads me to consider that it is the atheists that blind themselves to reality and have blind faith.

It's not that I don't see this - it's just that I see much more than this.

 

[Reverend Rick]

With all the evidence in the OP that point to a God, you have to choose to ignore it or not accept it, which is choosing to not believe.

You know, I don't have a problem with what others believe. I just hate it when they try and tell others what to believe.

 

[sandandfoam]

Theists. That was an easy one.

Such a view should be considered in the light of it's having come from a Man U supporter.
We all know their knuckles bleed when they walk.
Chances are it's a wrong answer

 

[Revoltingest]

With all the evidence in the OP that point to a God, you have to choose to ignore it or not accept it, which is choosing to not believe.

Evidence? I haven't seen you present any yet.
Sure, sure, you have your personal reasons for believing in gods,
but you didn't present a cogent argument for why one must exist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

With all the evidence in the OP that point to a God, you have to choose to ignore it or not accept it, which is choosing to not believe.

Which is exactly what you do as well.

Is it "blind faith" when you reject Hinduism or Paganism? If not, how is it "blind faith" when I do it?

I think you're just upset with people applying the same standard to your religion that you apply to all religions but your own. Every religion that you don't adhere to has every single piece of "evidence" you list in the OP as well. If they're supposed to be enough to make an atheist believe in your religion, why aren't they enough to make you believe in the religions that you reject?

IMO, the argument you've given so far is fundamentally hypocritical.

 

[Man of Faith]

You know, I don't have a problem with what others believe. I just hate it when they try and tell others what to believe.

I'm not telling anybody what to believe, I am pointing out evidence that needs to be ignored or not accepted in order to not believe in God to show theist faith is not blind. I guess you can consider this a theist apologetics post.

 

[Man of Faith]

Which is exactly what you do as well.

Is it "blind faith" when you reject Hinduism or Paganism? If not, how is it "blind faith" when I do it?

I think you're just upset with people applying the same standard to your religion that you apply to all religions but your own. Every religion that you don't adhere to has every single piece of "evidence" you list in the OP as well. If they're supposed to be enough to make an atheist believe in your religion, why aren't they enough to make you believe in the religions that you reject?

IMO, the argument you've given so far is fundamentally hypocritical.

This is a theist vs atheist post, not a theist vs theist one.

 

[Magic Man]

Theists have:
The testimony of others – Whether it be growing up in a believing home or seeing others in church and worshiping, theists have the testimony of others of what God has done or doing in their lives.

Sure, and they also have the testimony of people who think God told them to kill their children. They also have the testimony of people who think God doesn't exist. They also have the testimony of people who think a different god exists.

Written history – Whether or not you accept the Bible or other religious texts as truth, theists have them and they point to God.

Sure, and Muslims have the Qur'an, and other religious groups have their own sacred texts. Just because something's written in a book doesn't mean we should accept it as anything more than a fictional story.

General revelation – When you see a painting you know there is a painter, just like when you see the earth, sky, and humans you know there has to be a creator.

Nope. This is false logic.

Jesus or other religious leader – Theists have Jesus and other religious leaders that have supposedly performed miracles or have been ordained by and point to God.

And? You said yourself, "supposedly". Unless we have some evidence that the stories about Jesus and others actually happened exactly as we're told, they're just stories.

Our own spirits – People have a spiritual craving to discover God and to worship something beyond self.

Maybe you do, but I don't.

Atheists see all of the same things yet they choose not to believe which leads me to consider that it is the atheists that blind themselves to reality and have blind faith.

I'm sure that is your conclusion, but that's mainly because of your own blind faith. The fact is there is no evidence for God, and there are reasons to believe that the Christian god does not exist. Therefore believing he exists is blind faith. Not believing he exists is reason and logic.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is a theist vs atheist post, not a theist vs theist one.

That's the thing: there's no such thing as the "theist" position. Instead, it's actually a matter of "Christian vs. non-Christian", "Muslim vs. non-Muslim", "Hindu vs. non-Hindu", "Pagan vs. non-Pagan", etc., etc.

And in every case but one, you're on the exact same side of the debate as I am. Now, you've turned around and argued that when I do it, it's somehow wrong. This is hypocritical.

 

[Magic Man]

Such a view should be considered in the light of it's having come from a Man U supporter.
We all know their knuckles bleed when they walk.
Chances are it's a wrong answer

Ah, the sweet smell of jealousy.

 

[sandandfoam]

Ah, the sweet smell of jealousy.

I've even lost my respect for Rooney.

 

[Wotan]

This is a theist vs atheist post, not a theist vs theist one.

Frankly, MOF that is a cop out. And I think you well KNOW it. You are most vociferous in pushing your belief in a specific god and you have openly rejected ANY other god but yours.

But now that your position is uncomfortable you wish to hide under the blanket of theism. The same blanket you were willing to burn in defense of YOUR god.

However stooping to your level lets arguendo accept that you make no such distinction and that you really are questioning the atheist position.

Even given that your argument fails because atheism is simply the lack of belief in god(s). Nothing more. And that position is based on the lack of verifiable, testable, empirical falsifiable EVIDENCE for them.
When you have such evidence present it. Pointing to all the actions of individuals based on THEIR personal experience is NOT evidence of anything. Except that they report having had such experiences.

 

[Magic Man]

I've even lost my respect for Rooney.

Why??