Whose 'logic' is it anyway?

[idav]

God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything?

We are way passed needing god to explain everything. Logic is no benefit without a huge amount of knowledge. We were logical back when we didn't have as many real answers and we are still logical but are explaining things without having to bring in any supernatural causes.

 

[9Westy9]

Ok , reasoning then if you like.

Man's reasoning says religion and God should not exist therefore some assume that this must be the case. - wrong.

This is because we are locked in the cage of our own reasoning.

God's reasoning is on a significantly higher plane and we are only able to glimpse or touch it at fleeting moments.

Human reasoning , logic and gut-feeling is hopelessly inadequate in trying to understand or explain the Universe.

This is one of the reasons we simply need to believe in God and forget about worrying over proof or reasons.

God is there for us.

:no: We don''t need to believe in God. We can use logic and reason to say that God probably doesn't exist. Until there is good evidence that God exists then I see no good reason to believe

 

[waitasec]

The atheist talk of logic in trying to explain away God ,Religion or Spirituality is a moot point.

Whose logic are we talking about here - God's or human's?

What may seem logical to us is only so because we only understand our own logic.

Think of a tribe comprised of children - their leaders would make the rules based on their own logic - to them it would all be commonsense and correct yet an adult could easily prove them wrong.

How about animal logic? - would a human be able to tell the leader of the Wolf Pack the correct way to do things, and how could a human possibly know anyway?

The same is true of God.

Statements such as 'the concept of God defies logic therefore it is just a delusion' are erroneous as they are based on the logical fallacy of human logic being correct.

God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything?

ever heard of common sense?

so look. i have to tell you to do something very important that will turn our uncertain future into a certainty and control.
but in order for you to make a difference is you just have to believe whatever i say...so stand up, and close your eyes now take 50 steps backwards with your eyes closed...trust me you won't trip because you are doing this in faith. now do it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

.. We can use logic and reason to say that God probably doesn't exist.

I think not..
How do you explain your 'personna' .. what controls your body?
Is it your mind? Is your mind part of your body?
If so, then you're saying that "your body controls your body"..
That doesn't tell us what controls your body, if indeed, your mind is part of your body..

 

[9Westy9]

I think not..
How do you explain your 'personna' .. what controls your body?
Is it your mind? Is your mind part of your body?
If so, then you're saying that "your body controls your body"..
That doesn't tell us what controls your body, if indeed, your mind is part of your body..

the brain controls the body.....

 

[muhammad_isa]

the brain controls the body.....

Exactly my point .. isn't the brain part of our body?
We're none the wiser then .. "the body controls the body" .. pretty meaningless, and doesn't explain our awareness or volition.

Having an understanding that our personna's are real, and not just electro-chemical reactions (or a piece of meat) would explain a lot more..

 

[9Westy9]

Exactly my point .. isn't the brain part of our body?
We're none the wiser then .. "the body controls the body" .. pretty meaningless, and doesn't explain our awareness or volition.

Having an understanding that our personna's are real, and not just electro-chemical reactions (or a piece of meat) would explain a lot more..

It's like a spaceship. The brain is the control deck. It controls all other aspects of the spaceship. Same with the brain.

Also how would understanding our persona's are real explain a lot more?

 

[connermt]

The atheist talk of logic in trying to explain away God ,Religion or Spirituality is a moot point.

Whose logic are we talking about here - God's or human's?

What may seem logical to us is only so because we only understand our own logic.

Think of a tribe comprised of children - their leaders would make the rules based on their own logic - to them it would all be commonsense and correct yet an adult could easily prove them wrong.

How about animal logic? - would a human be able to tell the leader of the Wolf Pack the correct way to do things, and how could a human possibly know anyway?

The same is true of God.

Statements such as 'the concept of God defies logic therefore it is just a delusion' are erroneous as they are based on the logical fallacy of human logic being correct.

God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything?

By popular belief, god is greater than humanity. Thus, it should be god's responsibility to say what's what in a manner that makes sense to US, not to god.
Therefore, either he can't (not all powerful) or won't (questionable at best). Either way, he's not to be trusted as he is.

"God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything". That's a terriblly limiting statement! Such concepts are taught by the church/christianity in order to eliminate individual thought and thus cement their foothold within humanity.
Luckily, many people are thinking for themselves, taking responsibility for their own actions and not relying on a cloud riding magician to do so for them.

 

[connermt]

Exactly my point .. isn't the brain part of our body?
We're none the wiser then .. "the body controls the body" .. pretty meaningless, and doesn't explain our awareness or volition.

Having an understanding that our personna's are real, and not just electro-chemical reactions (or a piece of meat) would explain a lot more..

The brain isn't as limiting as you appear to think it is. There's much more to it. Besides, we are meat, we are electical impulses, we are energy...we are all those things. Nothing wrong with that.
But passing on that concept to a deity and not trying to understand it is lazy and intellectually dishonest to ourselves and our race.

Even animals have personalities after all...

 

[outhouse]

He makes Homo sapiens out to be these primitive beings who cannot understand their own logic, that imagine a better one.

for once I agree with him. but we know thats dead luck LOL

 

[PolyHedral]

I think not..
How do you explain your 'personna' .. what controls your body?
Is it your mind? Is your mind part of your body?
If so, then you're saying that "your body controls your body"..
That doesn't tell us what controls your body, if indeed, your mind is part of your body..

The body is autonomous.

 

[Alex_G]

The atheist talk of logic in trying to explain away God ,Religion or Spirituality is a moot point.

Whose logic are we talking about here - God's or human's?

What may seem logical to us is only so because we only understand our own logic.

Think of a tribe comprised of children - their leaders would make the rules based on their own logic - to them it would all be commonsense and correct yet an adult could easily prove them wrong.

How about animal logic? - would a human be able to tell the leader of the Wolf Pack the correct way to do things, and how could a human possibly know anyway?

The same is true of God.

Statements such as 'the concept of God defies logic therefore it is just a delusion' are erroneous as they are based on the logical fallacy of human logic being correct.

God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything?

How do you come to the conclusion of a God existing in the first place to be included here in your argument? If it was by means of some human faculty of yours, which no doubt it was, then isnt its reliability simply limited by your faculties in the same way your argument points out? How can you include something (God) within an argument that’s set up to show how you could not ever reliably arrive at the conclusion of God existing in the first place?

We trust logic, evidence and sound reasoning because its got a very good track record of providing actual insights and advances in knowledge and understanding leading to a large measurable effect on how we live our lives. Such that if we are ever going to try and assess something’s existence meaningfully, it might as well be by these standards that we have. Hence why talk of evidence and reasoning is much more powerful in discussing God's potential existence as opposed to someone proclaiming simple 'gut feelings' and desires.

 

[muhammad_isa]

But passing on that concept to a deity and not trying to understand it is lazy and intellectually dishonest to ourselves and our race.

Not at all .. try to understand it as we might, we still don't understand what causes awareness & volition .. you only assume that the brain is solely responsible.

Logic & reason doesn't point towards there "probably not being a god", it points in the opposite direction .. that there is!

We experience consciousness, and are able to make reasoned choices .. what's your explanation?
You say "solely the brain" is responsible..
Let's say that you're right .. then how did our brains become able to do this?
You say "they evolved" .. what did they evolve from?

..and there you have it .. I postulate that "God" arranged it, whereas you will say "I don't know", or "they can evolve from nought"

Which is saying that our brains "just happen to be for no reason" .. that's not an explanation! Particularly not an epistemically justified one.
So .. whether one is a 'dualist' or not makes no difference, really..

 

[Sunstone]

You are conflating reasoning with logic.

Reasoning is indeed something that we do in our minds and is limited to our experiences and prior knowledge -- logic, though, is the very rules of reality that we find outside ourselves and can only describe (not create).

I agree with Meow Mix.

 

[PolyHedral]

What did they evolve from?

Chemical sludge.

Which is saying that our brains "just happen to be for no reason" .. that's not an explanation!

The actual explanation is that they happened because they helped us survive.

 

[Revoltingest]

Logic is irrelevant.
There's simply no good reason to presume that gods exist.
Unanswered questions about the origins of the universe or our minds are not an argument for or against gods.
(People often make things more complicated than they are.)

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I love the irony inherent to most of these misguided arguments about logic.

 

[ChristineES]

I think Star Trek, of all things, really talked about the need for both logic and gut feelings. Spock used logic to explain things, and Dr. McCoy had mostly gut reactions. Their interactions were kind of a message that we need both. We need both logic and emotions. God, to me at least, is a spiritual thing- speaking to my emotional side. When I studied Chemistry in college, I used my logical side and did very well at it.

(I think it strange, as Star Trek is hardly a religious show).

 

[Songbird]

Whose logic are we talking about here - God's or human's?

All that question boils down to for me is what some people say about God versus what other people say about God.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think Star Trek, of all things, really talked about the need for both logic and gut feelings. Spock used logic to explain things, and Dr. McCoy had mostly gut reactions. Their interactions were kind of a message that we need both. We need both logic and emotions. God, to me at least, is a spiritual thing- speaking to my emotional side. When I studied Chemistry in college, I used my logical side and did very well at it.
(I think it strange, as Star Trek is hardly a religious show).

Kirk showed us the importance of getting it on with alien babes.
I learned that wearing a red shirt is a death sentence.