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Whose Side Are You On, God's Or That Of Morality?

Axe Elf

Prophet
I'm not directing this to your beliefs about God since I don't know them.
But some people see hardships as God's trials, or punishment, or whatever.

Perhaps we don't 'deserve' anything, as you say. But that would also mean we don't deserve punishment, or someone deliberately making life more difficult that it otherwise would be.

Agreed; that's why I asked--"Making things more difficult than WHAT, exactly?" Why would you think that there is some level of difficulty that life would otherwise be if there wasn't a God? I thought you were an atheist, so this level of difficulty IS the baseline; this IS what life is like without God, right? If God did exist, what about this life would be more difficult than it already is WITHOUT God (in your opinion)?

Or, if you believe that God does exist, then how is God's existence making things more difficult than they would be if He didn't exist?

Life is just life; we don't deserve it, and it doesn't owe us anything. We don't deserve punishments or rewards, they just happen.
 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
That couldn't hurt. Adding some meaning would be helpful, too.
Tell a fabricated truth for 2000 years, later discovered as a lie.

Get people to disown a 2000 year old established truth as lie.

Tends to make future developments more complicated because people refuse to let go of the past.
 
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Axe Elf

Prophet
Tell a fabricated truth for 2000 years, later discovered as a lie.

Get people to disown a 2000 year old established as truth lie..

Tends to make future developments more complicated because people refuse to let go of the past.

But you were responding to my question as to how God could possibly make things more difficult than they already are. You're talking about merely and purely human actions here, so your comments don't make sense in context.
 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
Beliefs tend to lead people to think they know things they actually do not. I believe I am a heart surgeon, if I believe hard enough I think I can give you a successful quadruple bypass surgery.

While that situation is highly unlikely, many people will BELIEVE, or a led to believe god will save them from their medical ailments. And instead of allowing doctors to do their job they give the job to preachers, who are not qualified for the job.

Belief is a functioning mental illness shared by billions of people. It isn't wrong if everyone is doing it right?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Agreed; that's why I asked--"Making things more difficult than WHAT, exactly?" Why would you think that there is some level of difficulty that life would otherwise be if there wasn't a God? I thought you were an atheist, so this level of difficulty IS the baseline; this IS what life is like without God, right? If God did exist, what about this life would be more difficult than it already is WITHOUT God (in your opinion)?

Yep. Life is Life.
I meant more that either we don't 'deserve' anything...both good or bad (what I think), or we do. I wasn't sure if you were suggesting we don't deserve God's help, but at the same time he was free to punish us how he saw fit. I've occasionally run into that, and it strikes me as a problematic way of considering the world.
I'm definitely an atheist. Not an anti-theist though, so I do try to consider things from other viewpoints than my own. That might have caused confusion here.

Life is just life; we don't deserve it, and it doesn't owe us anything. We don't deserve punishments or rewards, they just happen.

Agreed, at least in terms of the baseline.
As 'intelligent' beings, we can have some impact on top of that baseline.
 

AdamRaja

Islamic Philosopher
When it's been pointed out how immoral god was for cruelly killing innocent people for things they were not responsible for (consider the innocent children of Sodom who were killed when god set fire to the town) Christians typically explain it away by saying god killed these innocent people for a very good reason, A reason we will never know, but is justified because god is good, and therefore would never do an unkind or immoral thing: God had an excellent and justifiable reason for killing innocent mothers and their babies; although, we will never know his reason or the justification.

For the non-believer this is hardly a convincing argument, but so be it, what else can the Christian say? However, speaking of god's pristine morality I ask you to consider the morality of SLAVERY; owning another human being; forcing that person to do unpaid work, and being permitted to beat him or her? Today, almost all peoples of the world condemn slavery because of its immorality. As has been pointed out:

"Although slavery does seem 'obviously wrong' it's worth listing some of the reasons why it's wrong.
1) Slavery increases total human unhappiness
2) The slave-owner treats the slaves as the means to achieve the slave-owner's ends, not as an end in themselves
3) Slavery exploits and degrades human beings
4)Slavery violates human rights: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights explicitly forbids slavery and many of the practices associated with slavery
5) Slavery uses force or the threat of force on other human beings
6) Slavery leaves a legacy of discrimination and disadvantage
7) Slavery is both the result and the fuel of racism, in that many cultures show clear racism in their choice of people to enslave
8) Slavery is both the result and the fuel of gender discrimination
9) Slavery perpetuates the abuse of children"
source

In moral philosophy there's an ethical theory called deontology that states that the morality of an action should be based on whether that action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than based on the consequences of the action.

"Most deontologists argue that slavery is wrong because it violates a person's rights. They believe everyone has a right to life and to choose how they will live within the rules of society. Deontologists believe it is wrong to treat people merely as objects and tools, to treat people merely as a means to end.

So, slavery is wrong because it violates rights, fairness, and justice. It does not matter if slavery has good or bad economic consequences, it is wrong period. It does not matter if slavery promotes the greatest happiness for the greatest number, it is wrong because it violates the rights of one human being.
source

Could there be better reasons for condemning slavery? I don't think so. Slavery obliterates an individual's self-governance or sovereignty. It takes over a person's life by others who have not obtained any authority to do this other than by the fact that they are mightier. YET! the Christian god thinks slavery is just fine: quite moral---presumably, if he thought it was immoral he wouldn't condone it.

In Exodus god even sets out rules for owning slaves. A few of them:

Exodus 21:2-3
2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him.

Exodus 21:7-8

7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed.

Exodus 21:20-21

20 If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.​

and in Leviticus we are told:

Leviticus 25: 44-46
44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.​

And the acceptance of slavery didn't end with the arrival of Jesus Christ. The New Testament makes no condemnation of slavery and does no more than admonish slaves to be obedient and their masters not to be unfair.

Ephesians 6:5-8
5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. 7 With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.

1 Timothy 6:1-2
1 All who are under the yoke [note the recognition of oppression] as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. 2 Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.

So, whose side are you on:


The side of those who feel slavery is wrong because it violates a person's dignity and rights. The right to life and to choose how one will live within the rules of society? Or on god's side, who doesn't care if slavery obliterates an individual's self-governance or sovereignty and, in fact, condones it?

.
You ever watched a horror movie?
If so, why?
Is it just a dramatic part of life or do you enjoy watching people die and get slaughtered?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
When it's been pointed out how immoral god was for cruelly killing innocent people for things they were not responsible for (consider the innocent children of Sodom who were killed when god set fire to the town) Christians typically explain it away by saying god killed these innocent people for a very good reason, A reason we will never know, but is justified because god is good, and therefore would never do an unkind or immoral thing: God had an excellent and justifiable reason for killing innocent mothers and their babies; although, we will never know his reason or the justification.

For the non-believer this is hardly a convincing argument, but so be it, what else can the Christian say? However, speaking of god's pristine morality I ask you to consider the morality of SLAVERY; owning another human being; forcing that person to do unpaid work, and being permitted to beat him or her? Today, almost all peoples of the world condemn slavery because of its immorality. As has been pointed out:

"Although slavery does seem 'obviously wrong' it's worth listing some of the reasons why it's wrong.
1) Slavery increases total human unhappiness
2) The slave-owner treats the slaves as the means to achieve the slave-owner's ends, not as an end in themselves
3) Slavery exploits and degrades human beings
4)Slavery violates human rights: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights explicitly forbids slavery and many of the practices associated with slavery
5) Slavery uses force or the threat of force on other human beings
6) Slavery leaves a legacy of discrimination and disadvantage
7) Slavery is both the result and the fuel of racism, in that many cultures show clear racism in their choice of people to enslave
8) Slavery is both the result and the fuel of gender discrimination
9) Slavery perpetuates the abuse of children"
source

In moral philosophy there's an ethical theory called deontology that states that the morality of an action should be based on whether that action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than based on the consequences of the action.

"Most deontologists argue that slavery is wrong because it violates a person's rights. They believe everyone has a right to life and to choose how they will live within the rules of society. Deontologists believe it is wrong to treat people merely as objects and tools, to treat people merely as a means to end.

So, slavery is wrong because it violates rights, fairness, and justice. It does not matter if slavery has good or bad economic consequences, it is wrong period. It does not matter if slavery promotes the greatest happiness for the greatest number, it is wrong because it violates the rights of one human being.
source

Could there be better reasons for condemning slavery? I don't think so. Slavery obliterates an individual's self-governance or sovereignty. It takes over a person's life by others who have not obtained any authority to do this other than by the fact that they are mightier. YET! the Christian god thinks slavery is just fine: quite moral---presumably, if he thought it was immoral he wouldn't condone it.

In Exodus god even sets out rules for owning slaves. A few of them:

Exodus 21:2-3
2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him.

Exodus 21:7-8

7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed.

Exodus 21:20-21

20 If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.​

and in Leviticus we are told:

Leviticus 25: 44-46
44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.​

And the acceptance of slavery didn't end with the arrival of Jesus Christ. The New Testament makes no condemnation of slavery and does no more than admonish slaves to be obedient and their masters not to be unfair.

Ephesians 6:5-8
5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. 7 With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.

1 Timothy 6:1-2
1 All who are under the yoke [note the recognition of oppression] as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. 2 Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.

So, whose side are you on:


The side of those who feel slavery is wrong because it violates a person's dignity and rights. The right to life and to choose how one will live within the rules of society? Or on god's side, who doesn't care if slavery obliterates an individual's self-governance or sovereignty and, in fact, condones it?

.
Your scenario presents a false dichotomy. I choose God's side who created and sees each person and a unique, valuable individual with free will and rights.
The slavery or servanthood of the Bible was not the same slavery which you are portraying in which people are dehumanized. God is opposed to such slavery.

"What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was based more on economics; it was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible condemns race-based slavery in that it teaches that all men are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27). At the same time, the Old Testament did allow for economic-based slavery and regulated it. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing,” which is what happened in Africa in the 16th to 19th centuries. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8– 10)."

Does the Bible condone slavery?
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I side with neither; I serve Satan, the master of all!


Shouldn't the OP title read "Jehovah" as the thread is specifically against that god rather than reading a generalized, non-descript "god" that can mean anything from Zeus to the universe?

Ya, Jehovah is not God! Not in my book anyway!

Nope. Read the thread.

.

The problem is you are presuming the Christianity as the default "god" thereby marginalizing other world religions.
 
When it's been pointed out how immoral god was for cruelly killing innocent people for things they were not responsible for (consider the innocent children of Sodom who were killed when god set fire to the town) Christians typically explain it away by saying god killed these innocent people for a very good reason, A reason we will never know, but is justified because god is good, and therefore would never do an unkind or immoral thing: God had an excellent and justifiable reason for killing innocent mothers and their babies; although, we will never know his reason or the justification.

For the non-believer this is hardly a convincing argument, but so be it, what else can the Christian say? However, speaking of god's pristine morality I ask you to consider the morality of SLAVERY; owning another human being; forcing that person to do unpaid work, and being permitted to beat him or her? Today, almost all peoples of the world condemn slavery because of its immorality. As has been pointed out:

"Although slavery does seem 'obviously wrong' it's worth listing some of the reasons why it's wrong.
1) Slavery increases total human unhappiness
2) The slave-owner treats the slaves as the means to achieve the slave-owner's ends, not as an end in themselves
3) Slavery exploits and degrades human beings
4)Slavery violates human rights: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights explicitly forbids slavery and many of the practices associated with slavery
5) Slavery uses force or the threat of force on other human beings
6) Slavery leaves a legacy of discrimination and disadvantage
7) Slavery is both the result and the fuel of racism, in that many cultures show clear racism in their choice of people to enslave
8) Slavery is both the result and the fuel of gender discrimination
9) Slavery perpetuates the abuse of children"
source

In moral philosophy there's an ethical theory called deontology that states that the morality of an action should be based on whether that action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than based on the consequences of the action.

"Most deontologists argue that slavery is wrong because it violates a person's rights. They believe everyone has a right to life and to choose how they will live within the rules of society. Deontologists believe it is wrong to treat people merely as objects and tools, to treat people merely as a means to end.

So, slavery is wrong because it violates rights, fairness, and justice. It does not matter if slavery has good or bad economic consequences, it is wrong period. It does not matter if slavery promotes the greatest happiness for the greatest number, it is wrong because it violates the rights of one human being.
source

Could there be better reasons for condemning slavery? I don't think so. Slavery obliterates an individual's self-governance or sovereignty. It takes over a person's life by others who have not obtained any authority to do this other than by the fact that they are mightier. YET! the Christian god thinks slavery is just fine: quite moral---presumably, if he thought it was immoral he wouldn't condone it.

In Exodus god even sets out rules for owning slaves. A few of them:

Exodus 21:2-3
2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him.

Exodus 21:7-8

7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed.

Exodus 21:20-21

20 If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.​

and in Leviticus we are told:

Leviticus 25: 44-46
44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.​

And the acceptance of slavery didn't end with the arrival of Jesus Christ. The New Testament makes no condemnation of slavery and does no more than admonish slaves to be obedient and their masters not to be unfair.

Ephesians 6:5-8
5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. 7 With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.

1 Timothy 6:1-2
1 All who are under the yoke [note the recognition of oppression] as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. 2 Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.

So, whose side are you on:


The side of those who feel slavery is wrong because it violates a person's dignity and rights. The right to life and to choose how one will live within the rules of society? Or on god's side, who doesn't care if slavery obliterates an individual's self-governance or sovereignty and, in fact, condones it?

.

When God shot his asteroid gun from space to hit evil sodom, he wasnt aiming the gun at babies, but, you know, asteriods dont discriminate babies from grownups.

But hey, if it makes ya feel better, God wont send the babies to hell.

Now, the part about slavery.

Deuteronomy 15

"12If any of your people—Hebrew men or women—sell themselves to you and serve you six years, in the seventh year you must let them go free. 13And when you release them, do not send them away empty-handed. 14Supply them liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to them as the Lord your God has blessed you.15Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.

16But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, 17then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your female servant.

18Do not consider it a hardship to set your servant free, because their service to you these six years has been worth twice as much as that of a hired hand. And the Lord your God will bless you in everything you do."

Wow, if you just look beyond the mere label of slave, this looks pretty good.

Think of today as selling yourself as you do a job application.

And binding contracts for periods of time.

Slavery still goes on today in the levels of economics.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You ever watched a horror movie?
If so, why?
Is it just a dramatic part of life or do you enjoy watching people die and get slaughtered?
When it comes to entertainment, the more violent, the more gory, and more depraved, the better. When it comes to life, I find violence unsettling, unnerving, and very undesirable. I wouldn't really "Kill God's People," but the song by SickTanic is pretty good. One part, the life part, is real. The other part, the entertainment part, is fictitious and fake. God Bless America is one of my favorite movies (a dark comedy movie where far Right Wingers and those who are rude are gunned down), but in life I'm against the death penalty.
 

AdamRaja

Islamic Philosopher
When it comes to entertainment, the more violent, the more gory, and more depraved, the better. When it comes to life, I find violence unsettling, unnerving, and very undesirable. I wouldn't really "Kill God's People," but the song by SickTanic is pretty good. One part, the life part, is real. The other part, the entertainment part, is fictitious and fake. God Bless America is one of my favorite movies (a dark comedy movie where far Right Wingers and those who are rude are gunned down), but in life I'm against the death penalty.
What makes you think you are any different than the actors in a gory movie? You claim to be a real person but you are merely an actor.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Wow, if you just look beyond the mere label of slave, this looks pretty good.
"Sell yourselves, and be jolly good slaves because you were slaves in Egypt." What you posted sounds absolutely appalling. There is no moral justification for owning another human being, and no amount of apologetic can ever fix it.
And that is nothing like a job. I can tell my boss to **** off today and leave it, without any requirement of six years of service. My boss also can't beat me, regardless, period, dot, end of discussion, no matter how long it takes me to recover. They also can't pass me around like property, because I am not their property.
We sell our labor, not our selves.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What makes you think you are any different than the actors in a gory movie? You claim to be a real person but you are merely an actor.
Actually, yes, I am an actor. I am a real person, there is the "real me," but I've played many roles. And all anyone does--even if they have never stepped foot on stage--is act a role, to fill a part. It doesn't make us any less real, it just makes our lives less authentic, because typically those roles we fill were prescribed to us and expected of us.
 

AdamRaja

Islamic Philosopher
Actually, yes, I am an actor. I am a real person, there is the "real me," but I've played many roles. And all anyone does--even if they have never stepped foot on stage--is act a role, to fill a part. It doesn't make us any less real, it just makes our lives less authentic, because typically those roles we fill were prescribed to us and expected of us.
Ok.
 
"Sell yourselves, and be jolly good slaves because you were slaves in Egypt." What you posted sounds absolutely appalling. There is no moral justification for owning another human being, and no amount of apologetic can ever fix it.
And that is nothing like a job. I can tell my boss to **** off today and leave it, without any requirement of six years of service. My boss also can't beat me, regardless, period, dot, end of discussion, no matter how long it takes me to recover. They also can't pass me around like property, because I am not their property.
We sell our labor, not our selves.

What you posted is a twist and a misinterpretation.

Your ignoring the part about hired hands and selling yourself.

The slave was more well off.

What about contracts? You break them there can be consequences.

Your also lumping biblical slavery as the same as kidnap and abusive slavery as all the same.

THERE not. And thats not apologetics. Just read the data and youl see that.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What you posted is a twist and a misinterpretation.
Obviously I twisted it around. Slavery apologetics should not expect anything better. But it's not a misrepresentation, but a hacked up and crudely pieced back together statement derived from what you posted from the Bible. It literally even says if they want to stay to pierce their ear without their consent. And they can't say no, because the Bible is clear the slave is property - it's the reason given to excuse beating slaves almost as badly as you want, with the condition being they recover after a few days.
What about contracts? You break them there can be consequences.
Contracts do not make you the property of someone else.
 
Obviously I twisted it around. Slavery apologetics should not expect anything better. But it's not a misrepresentation, but a hacked up and crudely pieced back together statement derived from what you posted from the Bible. It literally even says if they want to stay to pierce their ear without their consent. And they can't say no, because the Bible is clear the slave is property - it's the reason given to excuse beating slaves almost as badly as you want, with the condition being they recover after a few days.

Actually, your still twisting it around.

If the slave wants to stay because he loves his master, then he is then aware of this regulation and HENCE DOES CONSENT.

Also, getting beat was not something God told them to do. God told them this

"15Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you"

He tells the masters to remember how they wer slaves, OPPRESSED kinds of slaves in egypt. Whipped by egyptial task masters.

And God had mercy on them and freed them.

So, God is saying treat your slaves kindly.

Its pretty obvious too me what this is saying.

Contracts do not make you the property of someone else.

Oh really? Thats nothing but samantics. The reality is, you break contracts, you get lawsuits and garnished wages. So, you either stick with the contract, or get punished. That looks like property to me.

Society today is still slavery, just took on a different form.
 

Shad

Veteran Member

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing,” which is what happened in Africa in the 16th to 19th centuries. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8– 10)."

Does the Bible condone slavery?

The Bible was used to support slavery of blacks as per the so-called Curse of Ham. It was used by abolitionists as support against slavery. The Bible has never been black and white about slavery.
 
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