Why Adam's Sin Became the Downfall for Us All

[leov]

So consciousness is not lively, or god is not lively

It is not part of physicality.

 

[james bond]

Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, the Exodus and Joshua are all fiction.. There is zero evidence for a flood and no Canaanite cities were destroyed. Israel couldn't field a large army. The Israelites were just another Canaanite tribe.

I see why we disagree. If you don believe they were true, then you can be misled. The global flood is the easiest to see by the scientific method. We are covered by 3/4 surface water. There are mountain ranges under the ocean. Majority of fossils are marine fossils and they have been found on Mt. Everest and the Himalayas. Without understanding of God's word, then we'll just have to disagree.

 

[Harel13]

What is the new world to come in the Jewish view?

A spiritual existence we can't really imagine which will come to be at the end of This World (far-post-Messianic era). Your place in The World To Come is determined by your actions in This World.

What was the reason why God created us in his image but he made us mortals?

One reason I can think of is to limit our time on earth - if we have infinite time, we would both feel hopelessly stuck in a never-ending cycle of work and also may feel that there's no need to hurry and work because we have all the time in the world (based on this, I recall seeing that some Rabbis opinionated that God wanted Adam to sin - because Adam was hanging around the Garden and not working (as is clearly stated in Genesis that God created Man "...and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." - Gen.2:15 - this of course wasn't God's original plan - had Man done his part, he would've stayed in the Garden. But he wasn't - so God moved on to plan B).

I would be interested to hear it...

Okay, I have no idea.

 

[james bond]

Too much is made of Adam's "original sin" IMHO. We are all like Adam and Eve, have a free will, and would have eventually rebelled in the Garden. Thanks be to the new Adam, Jesus, for salvation!

One can't make enough of Adam's sin. We became without God. Next, one of the things we must do is die now. Furthermore, we lost domain over the Earth to Satan.

Why would we eventually have rebelled in the Garden? That's a strange statement. There was only one command to obey. Not ten like today. I would've asked God to move the ToK to some remote location, as it does not violate his one command.

 

[james bond]

From your link.

There are wide-ranging disagreements among Christian groups as to the exact understanding of this doctrine, with some so-called Christian groups denying it altogether. Eastern Orthodoxy, Judaism, and Islam acknowledge that the introduction of sin into the human race affected the subsequent environment for mankind, but deny any inherited guilt or necessary corruption of man's nature.

Historical development
It was largely through Augustine's arguments against the Pelagians that the doctrine of "original sin" was formalized into Christian orthodoxy.

I go with the Calvinistic view. When we look at what Adam did was he knew the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. It is fact that he was instructed to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He knew what death would entail although he did not experience it. What we find is Adam, too, questioned God's powers like Lucifer had did when he received free will and became the most powerful angel. Adam, too, thought he was the most powerful and like God.

'"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate."' Genesis 3:5-6

 

[james bond]

sounds like a topic of it's own

when I was just leaving grade school
the teacher announced 3billion as the total then

40yrs later.....it doubled.....6billion

if I live to the age of my dearly departed grandparents it will double again
12billion

this planet has enough chemistry for 9billion

THE END IS NEAR.....!!!!!

I meant 200 K years of humankind, not 200 years. Typo.

It would be nice to know when the end will be, but we won't know and it will happen when we least expect it. All we can do is be prepared for it. I'm trying to find out myself how one can be prepared.

 

[sooda]

I go with the Calvinistic view. When we look at what Adam did was he knew the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. It is fact that he was instructed to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He knew what death would entail although he did not experience it. What we find is Adam, too, questioned God's powers like Lucifer had did when he received free will and became the most powerful angel. Adam, too, thought he was the most powerful and like God.

'"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate."' Genesis 3:5-6

Its a myth.. for bronze age people. The original story was that Eden was a playground for the gods and humans were the gardeners.

 

[sooda]

I see why we disagree. If you don believe they were true, then you can be misled. The global flood is the easiest to see by the scientific method. We are covered by 3/4 surface water. There are mountain ranges under the ocean. Majority of fossils are marine fossils and they have been found on Mt. Everest and the Himalayas. Without understanding of God's word, then we'll just have to disagree.

There is zero evidence for a global flood. The Himalayas are relative new mountains that are still getting higher. They are create by the pushing of tectonic plates. Do you not have even a rudimentary knowledge of geology?

 

[Fool]

It is not part of physicality.

So you are a panentheistic gnostic?

 

[james bond]

the garden event was intended to sway the spirit of Man
breathe that breath into him

it worked

we NEED to be that creature curious about the afterlife
wanting to know....even if death IS the consequence for the acquisition

the apple trick was a test

Man has been such a creature ever since

as for sin.....
I find it notable that Spanish uses the word as.....without

and we do live …..without
born without God
live without God
and likely to die......without God
death was always a part of the scheme of things

THEN....God and heaven come to see whatever stands from the dust

God's breath or life spirit. We have that today. Do you think it is supernatural? It can't be natural as only life can produce life. The life spirit cannot be created outside the cell.

I don't think the forbidden fruit was a trick. God clearly stated it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He also told them it would cause death.

Today, we have Apple corporation whose logo is that of an apple with a bite taken out of it. It is the #1 corporation in terms of profits and capital in California. Some people think that is Satan's company. I think they still have a gay CEO .

 

[sooda]

God's breath or life spirit. We have that today. Do you think it is supernatural? It can't be natural as only life can produce life. The life spirit cannot be created outside the cell.

I don't think the forbidden fruit was a trick. God clearly stated it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He also told them it would cause death.

Today, we have Apple corporation whose logo is that of an apple with a bite taken out of it. It is the #1 corporation in terms of profits and capital in California. Some people think that is Satan's company. I think they still have a gay CEO .

The Himalayan mountains were formed due to collision of the Indian plate and the Eurasian plate which happened about 50 million years ago. This is covered by the Eocene era.

 

[james bond]

I'm an atheist, I have no religious beliefs.
I don't need evidence for beliefs I don't hold.



No, you do not.



No. We have your beliefs about the human nature. Your mere beliefs aren't facts just because you believe it.



Did you even read that article?
It doesn't say what you think it says.
In addition, as the dude himself says in the blog post, he's not a biologist.

It reeks of confirmation bias from beginning to end.
He also manages to completely misrepresent what "mitochondrial eve" and "y-chromosome" adam are REALLY all about.

Hint: no geneticist says that they were the only humans around. Moreover, both individuals lived thousands of years apart. They never met or knew eachother. By the time one of them was born, the other was dead for millenia already.

Human population, as genetics show, was NEVER smaller then a couple of thousand individuals.

Perhaps you should get your information from actual scientific sources instead of blog posts with obvious religious bias.



*I* don't have anything, as I'm not a bio-chemist nore am I involved in that research.
The field of abiogenesis has a couple of interesting hypothesis. But why does that matter?




So?



No.
Abiogenesis is an ongoing study, a work in progress. Nobody so far has refuted it.
You are welcome to cite scientific papers in which you feel this happened though.

Don't forget to notify the many abiogenesis researchers around the world that they are apparantly beating a dead horse....




I bet you can't even explain what exactly the Miller-Urey experiment was about and what it resulted in.

Also, why are you yapping about this?
None of this has any relation to the validity or merrit of your religious creation myths.

In fact, for the sake of argument, I'll bend over backwards and pretend as if all of modern science is demonstrated wrong. Abiogenesis, evolution, plate tectonics, germ theory, atomic theory, ... let's just pretend it's all false for a second.

This doesn't advance your creationist myth for even an inch.
You still have all your work cut out for you.

You like to pretend as if if science is wrong, then your bible is correct by default.
That is, off course, hilariously invalid.

For your bible nonsense to be accepted as valid and accurate, you have to actually DEMONSTRATE these claims. You need evidence in support of those claims.

Showing idea X wrong doesn't make idea Y advance one bit. You still need to demonstrate idea Y.
You need actualy positive evidene in support of your claims.



Your ignorance on the subject is showing.

>>I don't need evidence for beliefs I don't hold.<<

Then it's a religion. Like I said atheism is a religion, but science does not back it up. You believe caca.

>>No, you do not.<<

Sure, it is. What other planet is covered by 3/4 surface water? Also, out of catastrophes, a flood kills the most people. You just can't figure these things out like I can.

>>It reeks of confirmation bias from beginning to end.<<

Do you have anything I can read to verify what you said here (besides assertions)?

As for the rest, tldr. No links at all to back up what you are saying.

 

[james bond]

Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in God or gods. The absence of something is NOT something.

However, most atheists are philosophical materialists. Philosophical materialism is a belief system built on a set of assumptions that are accepted by its believers as being true without any proof. When you challenge these assumptions they do not stand up well under scrutiny. So when you hear atheists talk and say things you do not like it's not because of their atheism. What you do not like is the assumptions they hold true based on their philosophical materialist beliefs.

Here are two good videos outlining why philosophical materialism is just as bad as any other dogma:

And

Science is a method of inquiry. Science as a belief system and worldview is the problem.

Like I said earlier, let's put the leaders of atheist groups in prison for taking an unlawful tax deduction.

 

[james bond]

the same free will that you will have in heaven?

ciao

- viole

The new heaven. Yes, but our new perfect bodies and life spirit like that of resurrected Jesus will not be capable of sin. Apparently, all this was to find the true believers.

 

[james bond]

What are you talking about? You yourself said:

"Here is the definition of atheism from dictionary.com."​

which was followed by what you now say was a definition for "religion."

Sorry, but people who change horses mid-stream aren't worth having a discussion with.

Good bye

.


.

I wanted to show how atheism is a religion based on definition. Thus, we have the definition of religion and its criteria. Atheism fits those criteria. Good day, sir.

 

[james bond]

in the Genesis story the Elohim were creating a paradise based on materialism, much like Babel. You don't get intoduced to the most high God until Melchizedek.

Adam and Eve were scattered. Interesting aside, Babel was known for its gardens. It's folks were scattered.

We see this materialistic idea being confined to specific place on Earth in Genesis 2:8-9 . Why not all of Earth? Or the whole universe? Why sin in only this spot?

So, the ToK of good and evil could not be moved?

 

[james bond]

People were expelled from paradise. I think the reason is that there should be no sin. I have no reason to believe there is sin in the paradise.

This contradicts the Bible.

Is there scripture that says God was physical in garden of the Eden?

Good question. God the Father is spirit so would be invisible, but we read in Genesis that both Adam and Even heard him walking through the garden and heard his voice talking with them. They even felt his presence, so they must've been able to see him in some physical form like the wind, cloud, or maybe some human form (theopany). If God is like us, then I don't see why he would not take a human form. Most illustrations show God the Father in human form.

 

[sooda]

This contradicts the Bible.

The fundies and inerrancy crowd drive people away from Christianity. It requires them to park their brains and reject both education and science. The Jews resolved that problem centuries ago.

Moses ben Maimon, commonly known as Maimonides and also referred to by the acronym Rambam, was a medieval Sephardic Jewish philosopher who became one of the most prolific and influential Torah scholars of the Middle Ages. In his time, he was also a preeminent astronomer and physician.

Born in Córdoba, Almoravid empire (present-day Spain) on Passover Eve, 1135 or 1138, he worked as a rabbi, physician, and philosopher in Morocco and Egypt. He died in Egypt on December 12, 1204, whence his body was taken to the lower Galilee and buried in Tiberias

 

[Subduction Zone]

This contradicts the Bible.

Only parts that should not be taken literally. The Bible only says that all of it is useful for instruction. It never claims to be accurate.

 

[Fool]

So, the ToK of good and evil could not be moved?

You can't profit from what you can't control. The demiurge can only control what is beneath them and not what is above. So the most high sent a prophet, a seer, a soothsayer, and the illusion was broken. Their eyes were opened. The fall didn't occur in the garden of the east. It fell when the spirits became attached to earth and tried to create heaven here vs God omnipresent. You failed.