Why Alcohol, Heroine, Cocaine?

[Glaurung]

There's nothing in Christian teaching that posits God to have such harmony was taken away. Genesis 3:17"

The text is pretty explicit. We disobeyed God, so God cursed the ground. (Read the next few verses). We have to toil, because we lost the cooperation of the natural world. And the fruits of our toil are in no way promised to be purely beneficial. We can use natural resources in such a way that can be dangerous for us because we have such freedom.

We may be the main beneficiaries of creation, be we are not the sole thing that exists within it. Not every plant is "for us" to consume.

 

[Skwim]

The text is pretty explicit. We disobeyed God, so God cursed the ground. (Read the next few verses). We have to toil, because we lost the cooperation of the natural world. And the fruits of our toil are in no way promised to be purely beneficial. We can use natural resources in such a way that can be dangerous for us because we have such freedom.

We may be the main beneficiaries of creation, be we are not the sole thing that exists within it. Not every plant is "for us" to consume.

So what was it with changing us so we have these propensities to addiction and attendant suffering? What's that all about? IMO his spite is beyond comprehension, and crosses over to sadism.

 

[Thana]

Ah, I was waiting for you to bring up the issue of free will or freedom. Of course the world wouldn't be what it is. It would be better. Unless, that is, you think suffering is good. And believe me, the world without addictions would still be working just the way it is today.

Might want to tell this to god. It was his original plan, you know; to rule over a world without sin, shame, death, etc. in it

How would you know? You're not God. You're just assuming.

And if that were His plan then it would have been, no? This very moment is His plan and all the moments following.

 

[Glaurung]

So what was it with changing us so we have these propensities to addiction and attendant suffering? What's that all about? IMO his spite is beyond comprehension, and crosses over to sadism.

Standard Christian teaching is the fall of man. Have you read Genesis? We lost the grace of God and therefore suffer a proclivity towards various infirmities and sin. The wages of sin, in which humans fell is death Romans 6:23 It's our unfortunate reality and our test. You have a means of redemption (God did not abandon us) but it's something you have to want. You should know this if you've studied even the most basic of Christian teaching.

 

[Skwim]

How would you know? You're not God. You're just assuming.

You mean that when god made man he didn't make the best man he could?

Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

So, it follows that if in the beginning man possessed many of the same wonderful characteristics as god, and then later on was beset with sin, shame, and death, something pretty drastic must have changed. Changes that were not a part of man in the beginning.

And if that were His plan then it would have been, no?

One would certainly think so. But the way the story unfolds the plan went awry. God was unaware that A&E would eat the apple, and that he would have to punish all of mankind into the far future for their transgression.

 

[Skwim]

Standard Christian teaching is the fall of man. Have you read Genesis? We lost the grace of God and therefore suffer a proclivity towards various infirmities and sin. The wages of sin, in which humans fell is death Romans 6:23 It's our unfortunate reality and our test. You have a means of redemption (God did not abandon us) but it's something you have to want. You should know this if you've studied even the most basic of Christian teaching.

Do you think the punishment fits the crime? I certainly don't.

 

[Thana]

You mean that when god made man he didn't make the best man he could?

Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

So, it follows that if in the beginning man possessed many of the same wonderful characteristics as god, and then later on was beset with sin, shame, and death, something pretty drastic must have changed. Changes that were not a part of man in the beginning.

One would certainly think so. But the way the story unfolds the plan went awry. God was unaware that A&E would eat the apple, and that he would have to punish all of mankind into the far future for their transgression.

Where does it say He was unaware? Again, you're just making assumptions that fit your bias.

And I think you're getting a little off-topic.

 

[Glaurung]

Do you think the punishment fits the crime? I certainly don't.

You're committing the very sin of Adam and Eve, self-deification. The belief you know better than the very creator. The fact is, you're a creature made of dust.

 

[psychoslice]

Its easy to me, there is no god, and so we should take responsibility for our own actions, its easy isn't it ?.

 

[First Baseman]

So god is simply an out and out sadist: "Just thought of some more ways I can *^&%* with mankind." ? Okay, but I'd think twice about singing his praises.

No sadist sacrifices His own Son for the sake of sinners unworthy of such love. Get your facts straight, buddy.

It sounds to me like your own personal beef with God has absolutely nothing to do with His character. The fault and the sin lies within you. It would do you good to dig it out and deal with it rather than fling faulty accusations at your Creator.

"Sin desires to have you but you must master it." God said this to Cain. He also says it to all of us as well.

 

[First Baseman]

Its easy to me, there is no god, and so we should take responsibility for our own actions, its easy isn't it ?.

So when will you right every wrong you have said and done yourself? Also, when will you go back in time and do all the right things you should have done but didn't do them? Are you able to save yourself from your own wrongdoing?

 

[First Baseman]

You're committing the very sin of Adam and Eve, self-deification. The belief you know better than the very creator. The fact is, you're a creature made of dust.

Very well said.

 

[viole]

No sadist sacrifices His own Son for the sake of sinners unworthy of such love. Get your facts straight, buddy.

The problem is that it was no sacrifice at all. Everybody would accept to stay dead for a couple of days to return as the ruler of the Universe and the hereafter. I would, if I knew with perfect knowledge to be the Daughter of God and that my death will be very limited in time.

I really don't see where the big deal is.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Skwim]

Where does it say He was unaware? Again, you're just making assumptions that fit your bias.

Common sense.

Why bother telling someone not to do something if you know they're going to do it?

Genesis 2:
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat;

17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.”
​

Or do you think god was talking just to hear himself talk?

​

And I think you're getting a little off-topic.

And I think you should read your Bible. Might want to start with the first chapter.

 

[Skwim]

You're committing the very sin of Adam and Eve, self-deification. The belief you know better than the very creator. The fact is, you're a creature made of dust.

Me! Skwim. A god? You have to be kidding. Although if I was one I'd certainly be a lot more compassionate and just than the Christian god. You think its justifiable to make everyone---that's millions upon millions of people---pay for the wrong of two people? Of course you do, because your god could never make a mistake . . . . . . . . Whoops! After reading the Bible, I guess he actually can, and did. So even god is fallible. Therefore, it's not impossible for him to have screwed up when he made us addictable to certain chemicals. Or . . . . was this something he did on purpose?

Hmmmm . . . . . . . Which do you think is the likelier case?

 

[SkepticThinker]

If Man had never sinned there would be no need to ask those questions.

Those things didn't exist before man supposedly sinned? Or they weren't as addictive or something?

 

[Skwim]

No sadist sacrifices His own Son for the sake of sinners unworthy of such love.

How do you know? Ever poll every sadist?

Get your facts straight, buddy.

Well, first you have to establish this as a fact. Your mere assertion doesn't cut it. . . . . . . . .buddy.

It sounds to me like your own personal beef with God has absolutely nothing to do with His character.

I have no beef with your god, you can portray him however you want. However, in trying to make sense of this portrayal certain inconsistencies crop up from time to time. One of them being the sadistic things he's done to humans in light of his purported love for them.

The fault and the sin lies within you. It would do you good to dig it out and deal with it rather than fling faulty accusations at your Creator.

Sorry, but I calls them as I sees them. You want to call your god a loving god then I wouldn't expect him to do unloving things.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Because that's how He wanted it. And if you don't like it, well God also made it so you can choose not to do drugs and become addicted.
Although it's crazy, to me, that you want to lay drug addiction at the feet of God whilst ignoring the fact that it was the people who chose that, and everytime they shoot up they keep choosing it. But I guess that's how a Godless world must look.

Being addicted to drugs isn't a choice. There are psychological and physiological changes that affect the brain in such a way that the addict becomes dependent on the drug. Those changes are not within the addict's control. So while the first time shooting up may be a choice, the craving and addiction that results make ingestion of the drug a necessity.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So when will you right every wrong you have said and done yourself? Also, when will you go back in time and do all the right things you should have done but didn't do them? Are you able to save yourself from your own wrongdoing?

I certainly do my best to right any wrongs I may have done. Don't you?

 

[Valjean]

What could have been god's purpose in creating addictive drugs such as nicotine, alcohol, heroine, cocaine, etc?
And if they serve some reasonable purpose why make humans vulnerable to them?

God has nothing to do with it. Blame natural selection and historical genetics.

In animals Nature might select for speed, camouflage or flight. Plants and fungi, on the other hand, can't flee or hide. Their primary self-defense is to make themselves noxious with pharmacologically active chemicals do dissuade predators who would eat them.

Biology is parsimonious. We share a great deal of physiology with other animals. What sickens or incapacitates a deer or grasshopper will often have a similar effect on us.
No divine intent needed.