Why are christians morally inferior to atheists

[Autodidact]

Reform Jew? I said religious Jew. Reform Jew is like saying Kosher Bacon.

Could you be more obnoxious and intolerant if you tried? My concentration camp survivor mother believed that reformed Judaism was most true to God's will for the Jewish people, and who was I to tell her different?

 

[Autodidact]

If that is what Christians are striving for as a barometer of our faith, then we are missing the boat. I'm sure there are nonbelievers out there that lead morally superior lives to many Christians, but living a moral life is not what saves us. It is the belief in Jesus Christ, that He is the Only Begotten Son of God The Father, that He died for my sins and that God raised Him from the dead. That is waht saves us, not our moral works. As a result of following Christ, I strive to love Him and others as Christ loved us, witness to others who do not have a personal relationship with Him and help others in need. I may not be at a moral level than maybe some other secular individuals, but I'm saved through the grace and love of God through Jesus Christ.

Got that? Not being good, not what you accomplish, learn, discover or create, not who you help or whether you made the world a better place, but whether you believe that this guy from a couple thousand years ago is the son of God or not; that's the only thing that matters.

 

[Smoke]

Reform Jew? I said religious Jew.

If you disagree with a person's religion, that means he's not religious at all?

Reform Jew is like saying Kosher Bacon.

I think Hasidic Noahide is much closer to kosher bacon than Reform Jew.

 

[Kerr]

Morality can exist without God... I am a living, breathing example of it !

Not logically you can't

Actually you can. It all depends on who you are I guess, because to me something that hurt someone as much as rape is clearly bad.

 

[blueman]

Got that? Not being good, not what you accomplish, learn, discover or create, not who you help or whether you made the world a better place, but whether you believe that this guy from a couple thousand years ago is the son of God or not; that's the only thing that matters.

For by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God". Not of works, lest any man should boast". Ephesians 2:8,9.

It is not our works that save us, but the grace of God through Jesus Christ. As we grow it our relationship with Christ, we strive to exhibit the life that He lead, but yet we are imperfect. If our salvation was relegated to a grade or points regarding our moral standard, there is always going to be someone who will probably do better. We are rewarded for our works, but not saved by them.

 

[S-word]

For the same reason that you should smile when you're happy or cry when you're sad. It's part of our emotional circuitry. It's an evolved trait. Any healthy human being will care when someone else gets hurt. We can't help it but to care, with or without religion.

The closer that a person is related to me, the more I care, the further away, the less I care.

If, while drifting around in the ocean after a shipping mishap, I were the only person of many to have managed to secure a life jacket, and knowing that those without, had no hope of remaining afloat before a rescue vehicle could reach the area, I would gladly give my jacket to my wife or daughter, but not to you who are unknown to me, in fact, as self survival is the greatest of all animal instincts apart from love, I would knock you out if you tried to grab my life support.

Being as I am, one who believes in God and the resurrection although not belonging to any Christian denomination and knowing that I had only months to live, I would do everything I could do for the security of my family before I, the consciousness, had to throw off this mortal garment. That which was beyond my ability to do, I would leave to my God who I know would continues to care for those I love.

But If I had no God to rely on, and there were those who would be a threat to the people I love after I have become nothing but the elements from which this body was formed, as is the belief of atheists, then I would eliminate that threat before I was plunged into total oblivion, because the love of those who are nearest and dearest to me, is the greatest animal instinct of all, as witnessed in the animal world to which atheists belong.

 

[rageoftyrael]

interesting, cause you left out one small detail s-word. What if a child wanted your life jacket? Not your child, another child? Now, this obviously isn't covered in the bible, it's a little too specific, but what would you do? I honestly couldn't tell you, it hasn't happened. I'm realistic enough to know that i might do it, i might not.

 

[S-word]

interesting, cause you left out one small detail s-word. What if a child wanted your life jacket? Not your child, another child? Now, this obviously isn't covered in the bible, it's a little too specific, but what would you do? I honestly couldn't tell you, it hasn't happened. I'm realistic enough to know that i might do it, i might not.

I agree with you there, I don't know what I would do if a terrified child was there beside me, but I can assure you that if I had to choose between that unknown child and my child who was also under threat of death and I could save only one, I'm realistic enough to know that the child who was not of my seed would have to rely on God's support.

 

[Autodidact]

For by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God". Not of works, lest any man should boast". Ephesians 2:8,9.

It is not our works that save us, but the grace of God through Jesus Christ. As we grow it our relationship with Christ, we strive to exhibit the life that He lead, but yet we are imperfect. If our salvation was relegated to a grade or points regarding our moral standard, there is always going to be someone who will probably do better. We are rewarded for our works, but not saved by them.

Try to step out side and reflect on this moral hierarchy: you're not rewarded for any good you do, but for whether or not you buy the story.

 

[CarlinKnew]

... in the animal world to which atheists belong.

I freely admit to being a primate; do you not think you're also one?

 

[Autodidact]

The closer that a person is related to me, the more I care, the further away, the less I care.

If, while drifting around in the ocean after a shipping mishap, I were the only person of many to have managed to secure a life jacket, and knowing that those without, had no hope of remaining afloat before a rescue vehicle could reach the area, I would gladly give my jacket to my wife or daughter, but not to you who are unknown to me, in fact, as self survival is the greatest of all animal instincts apart from love, I would knock you out if you tried to grab my life support.

Being as I am, one who believes in God and the resurrection although not belonging to any Christian denomination and knowing that I had only months to live, I would do everything I could do for the security of my family before I, the consciousness, had to throw off this mortal garment. That which was beyond my ability to do, I would leave to my God who I know would continues to care for those I love.

But If I had no God to rely on, and there were those who would be a threat to the people I love after I have become nothing but the elements from which this body was formed, as is the belief of atheists, then I would eliminate that threat before I was plunged into total oblivion, because the love of those who are nearest and dearest to me, is the greatest animal instinct of all, as witnessed in the animal world to which atheists belong.

Newsflash: We all belong to the animal world. Anyway, I'm not getting your distinction. As a Christian, you care first about your loved ones, but as an atheist, you would care first about your loved ones? What's the distinction?

 

[rageoftyrael]

i know autodidact.... it is something i've begun to attack recently, to try to explain to christians why that is the case. It's pretty simple actually, though it always sounds like a conspiracy theory. Of course, it is only why i think it's so easy, not necessarily the fact. If you wanna know, i'll probably start a thread explaining it, but probably not for a day, i'm busy, lol.

 

[Devotee]

Well, now that I got your attention.....I really don't think christians are morally inferior, but this is in response to those who claim that if they did not have a belief in god, then nothing would stop them from living a hedonistic type lifestyle (drinking, sex, stealing, etc). I really want to know what is it in the makeup of the christian psyche, that leaves them unable to lead a "moral" life without some kind of belief in a deity. Why don't they have the self-regulating ability to control their actions not to cause harm to themselves or others? Most atheists I know are able to do this, so why aren't christians able to self-regulate? What are they missing?

If you need a God or religion to keep you morally in check, then you have very little morals in the first place!

 

[S-word]

Newsflash: We all belong to the animal world. Anyway, I'm not getting your distinction. As a Christian, you care first about your loved ones, but as an atheist, you would care first about your loved ones? What's the distinction?

Well atheist certain don't have any expectation of belonging to the spiritual world, so please tell us all what world is it that you belong to?

As a human being I care first for those who are nearest and dearest to me, as I expect all humans do, regardless of what persuasion they belong to. Where the distintion arises is between the mind that can trust in a god to care for their loved ones after they have departed, and those minds who have nothing to protect their loved ones after their bodies and presumably their consiousness have returned to the dust from which they believe both their body and mind/spirit was formed.

 

[monta]

Well atheist certain don't have any expectation of belonging to the spiritual world, so please tell us all what world is it that you belong to?

As a human being I care first for those who are nearest and dearest to me, as I expect all humans do, regardless of what persuasion they belong to. Where the distintion arises is between the mind that can trust in a god to care for their loved ones after they have departed, and those minds who have nothing to protect their loved ones after their bodies and presumably their consiousness have returned to the dust from which they believe both their body and mind/spirit was formed.

Are you saying that when you as a Christian leave the hypothetical child to fend for themselves you are leaving them with Jesus, but an atheist doing the same thing is abandoning the child.

Or am I missing something subtle ?

 

[Beaudreaux]

beaudreaux, did you mean this thread? cause it's really annoying when people ask atheists why they are in a religious forum, cause they aren't religious. we like to discuss our beliefs! and this place also talks about politics and other random stuff, so shish.

I am an atheist. I thought from his posts that "TheKnight" was a theist arguing for God. I often hear religious folk who are backed into a corner reach for the "well we can't really know anything about God" line. I thought this was what was happening. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Kerr]

As a human being I care first for those who are nearest and dearest to me, as I expect all humans do, regardless of what persuasion they belong to. Where the distintion arises is between the mind that can trust in a god to care for their loved ones after they have departed, and those minds who have nothing to protect their loved ones after their bodies and presumably their consiousness have returned to the dust from which they believe both their body and mind/spirit was formed.

Personally I regard that when someone is dead they do not need any protection, they do not exist anymore. It is not a real difference in how you care about your loved ones, as much as a difference in belief of what happens when we die.

 

[Autodidact]

Well atheist certain don't have any expectation of belonging to the spiritual world, so please tell us all what world is it that you belong to?

The same world we all belong to: the real world. You know, the one we live in? The one we're conversing in?

As a human being I care first for those who are nearest and dearest to me, as I expect all humans do, regardless of what persuasion they belong to. Where the distintion arises is between the mind that can trust in a god to care for their loved ones after they have departed, and those minds who have nothing to protect their loved ones after their bodies and presumably their consiousness have returned to the dust from which they believe both their body and mind/spirit was formed.

O.K., so you think God will protect your family after you're dead? What exactly will He protect them from, and how? Will He protect them from danger? Deprivation? Grief? What? In other words, if you and I are hit by the same bus tomorrow, what danger will my family be exposed to that yours will be protected from, assuming we both have life insurance?

 

[S-word]

Are you saying that when you as a Christian leave the hypothetical child to fend for themselves you are leaving them with Jesus, but an atheist doing the same thing is abandoning the child.

Or am I missing something subtle ?

To be quite honest, I don't believe that the hypothetical child would receive too much concideration from me at all, as all my efforts and thoughts would be aimed at the survival of myself and or those who are nearest and dearest to me.


If you were one of those floating around there also, I very much doubt that I would even acknowledge your existence. But, even though I would be abandoning you to God our Father who raised Jesus from death and is able to raise you also, the Atheist who abandons you, abandons you to total oblivion.

 

[rageoftyrael]

s-word, what are you saying, exactly? from what i'm reading, i'm not sure i like it.