Why are Jehovah's Witnesses reluctant to discuss their faith?

[shmogie]

Nothing written by Jesus or dictated by Jesus not even authorized by Jesus. Right, please?

Regards

ALL, authorized by the Christ. Direct witnesses wrote what He taught.

 

[paarsurrey]

ALL, authorized by the Christ. Direct witnesses wrote what He taught.

"Direct witnesses" "He taught"

The most part of the four Gospels consists on the detail of event of Crucifixion of Jesus:

• it is neither taught by Jesus
• nor narrated by the direct witnesses.

Right,please?

Regards
_________

 

[shmogie]

"Direct witnesses" "He taught"

The most part of the four Gospels consists on the detail of event of Crucifixion of Jesus:

• it is neither taught by Jesus
• nor narrated by the direct witnesses.

Right,please?

Regards
_________

Wrong. The Gospels primarily are about Christs teachings, both before, and after the crucifixion.

The Gospels were written by Apostles, who were the first and closest followers of Christ. These were direct witnesses to Christś ministry, his teachings, his prayers, his conversation, both before and after the resurrection.

I think you ought to read the Gospels before you comment on them. Further, you ought to read them objectively, without considering what appears to be the Muslim propaganda and untruth.

 

[tas8831]

"We never claimed either that gradualism could not occur in theory, or did not occur in fact (Eldredge 1971; Eldredge and Gould 1974, p. 307)."
- Punctuated Equilibria: The Tempo and Mode of Evolution Reconsidered Stephen Jay Gould; Niles Eldredge Paleobiology, Vol. 3, No. 2. (Spring, 1977), pp. 115-151.

I am not certain, of course, but I would bet that the above quote will not be seen in any creationist writings.

"never claimed" that gradualism "could not occur in theory" (I like that as a catch-all reason to believe in evolution perhaps) or (and now the big one) "did not occur in fact." LOL.[/QUOTE]
Way to miss the point.
Oh -

LOL

 

[PruePhillip]

"Direct witnesses" "He taught"

The most part of the four Gospels consists on the detail of event of Crucifixion of Jesus:

• it is neither taught by Jesus
• nor narrated by the direct witnesses.

Right,please?

Regards
_________

We don't know because there's no acknowledge of the authors
But TRADITIONALLY the four books were ascribed to four names
and I would not be far wrong in saying Matthew, Mark, Luke and
John were actually written by people of that name.
And with Luke and John in particular you see something of the
men in their accounts.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Now you are trying to dishonestly twist what was said.

What Gould found was that there are times of very rapid evolution. Gradualism used to be thought to be the way that life evolved. They found that gradualism, which can be observed, was not the only way that life evolved.

Why does reality bother you so much that it causes you to break the Ninth Commandment?

I think this is a bit misleading. Or at least confusing for creationists.

"rapid" evolution in PE, is still gradual.

PE is really just about what happens when selection pressures shift.
When selection pressures stay the same, evolution "slows down". In the sense that mutations that increase fitness become rarer. When species find themselves in a "local optimum" or close to it, it becomes harder to further "improve" fitness.

When selection pressures shift, the "local optimum" of fitness moves. Meaning that there are now more options towards further increasing fitness. So changes are more easily selected. Meaning changes achieve fixation more rapidly.

Nevertheless, in both cases we are still talking about the gradual accumulation of micro-changes over generations.

In summary: in PE, these changes simply accumulate faster.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I’d like to further this….You asked a legitimate question:

I wonder....if what you say is true, doesn't that mean the "complex information" that allows pathogens to infect and cause disease were created by God? If evolution can't generate the "complex information" for the biochemical pathways that the plasmodium parasite uses to cause malaria, where did they come from?

Here was my first response….

No, it doesn’t.

I’ll try to explain, …..
When A&E chose to rebel, Jehovah removed (most of) His protection from them. That also applied to the Earth. Remember God saying that “thorns and thistles” would affect Adam’s farming?
Jehovah put the systems in place, like the water cycle, etc., to care for the Earth, but these systems get out of hand sometimes. Same w/ living organisms.
Jehovah’s spirit does not ‘permeate this planet’ as it did in the beginning, but it will once again. Isaiah 11:6-9 reveals that.

Now, to present some evidence from the Bible’s statements that support this ‘removal of God’s spirit / protection’ concept:

Do you remember how much “green vegetation “ God had given A&E to eat? The account at Genesis 1:29 quotes God as saying, “All seed-bearing plants (“green vegetation”, Genesis 9:3) I have given you for food.”
I’m sure even back in the day of the Genesis writer, I believe it was Moses, but back then, I’m sure there were some that were poisonous. Like today’s poison ivy, etc.
What does this tell us? That even the Bible intimates a change can occur within organisms. (And this is a beneficial change for the organisms, but harmful to us. No direction by God; just organisms left to fend for their own survival.)

Hope that explains it better.
Take care.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I guess I missed this earlier:

Why do so many of them [JW’s] try and pass themselves off as experts in multiple fields of science instead? I honestly have no idea.

“So many”?!
Which JW’s “pass themselves off as experts”?
Not me. I usually quote the experts.

Who calls themselves an expert?
Or was this just a sweeping generalization.

 

[paarsurrey]

shmogie said: ↑
ALL, authorized by the Christ. Direct witnesses wrote what He taught.

"Direct witnesses" "He taught"

The most part of the four Gospels consists on the detail of event of Crucifixion of Jesus:

• it is neither taught by Jesus
• nor narrated by the direct witnesses.

Right, please?

I just warn the friends here @ RF to be careful and not be mislead by the "inverted commas" and or the quotation marks in the Gospels that these are the sayings of Jesus, it is not the case as the four Gospels are the third person narratives of anonymous narrators as rightly admitted by the Catholic Encyclopedia:

“The first four historical books of the New Testament are supplied with titles (Euangelion kata Matthaion, Euangelion kata Markon, etc.), which, however ancient, do not go back to the respective authors of those sacred writings. The Canon of Muratori, Clement of Alexandria, and St. Irenæus bear distinct witness to the existence of those headings in the latter part of the second century of our era. Indeed, the manner in which Clement (Stromata I.21), and St. Irenæus (Against Heresies III.11.7) employ them implies that, at that early date, our present titles to the Gospels had been in current use for some considerable time. Hence, it may be inferred that they were prefixed to the evangelical narratives as early as the first part of that same century. That, however, they do not go back to the first century of the Christian era, or at least that they are not original, is a position generally held at the present day. It is felt that since they are similar for the four Gospels, although the same Gospels were composed at some interval from each other, those titles were not framed, and consequently not prefixed to each individual narrative, before the collection of the four Gospels was actually made. Besides, as well pointed out by Prof. Bacon, “the historical books of the New Testament differ from its apocalyptic and epistolary literature, as those of the Old Testament differ from its prophecy, in being invariably anonymous, and for the same reason.”
” It thus appears that the present titles of the Gospels are not traceable to the Evangelists themselves.”
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Gospel and Gospels

" According to (anonymous) Mathew" " According to (anonymous) Mark", and these names (Matthew, Mark, Luka and John) have been given to these anonymous narratives most probably and or most certainly as a deception measure to the simple minded followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, to win them over for Hellenism (of dying, rising deity) by the Hellenist Paul, his Associates and the Pauline-Church, it transpires, please , right?

Regards

 

[YoursTrue]

Really? He was asked this by @Jose Fly "I wonder....if what you say is true, doesn't that mean the "complex information" that allows pathogens to infect and cause disease were created by God?" He responded no, then went on to explain how it was "yes".
You can believe whatever you like, but that is not science and you have no evidence to support that belief.
I agree that our wanton abuse of resources is polluting our own environment.
What does this have to do with the theory of evolution. Most of the damage we have enacted on our environment has taken place over the last 200 years and accelerated in the last 75 to 100 years. Previously, our population was not at the level it has reached and our technology was nowhere near what it is today. Damage we did to our environment prior to the last few hundred years was local and did not have the impact we have today.

I live near what was once a thriving Native American community of the Mississippian culture. It lasted for nearly 800 years in this region and was gone before Columbus was even born. The evidence indicates that it was a depletion of resources that lead to the decline and disappearance of this culture. But that was local and the area recovered over time until we came along.

God allows bad things to happen, including pathogens to infect men and animals. He does not cause this.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. I have my beliefs and I have my understanding of science. The former does not enter into explaining the latter and the latter does not preclude the former.

So they're exclusive of one another. Interesting. Although astounding and -- frankly -- not believable. But anyway, you have a good day. Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, happy to say. So glad I studied with them and have faith in God, the true one. John 17:3 if you believe. "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

 

[Jose Fly]

I’d like to further this….You asked a legitimate question:

Here was my first response….


Now, to present some evidence from the Bible’s statements that support this ‘removal of God’s spirit / protection’ concept:

Do you remember how much “green vegetation “ God had given A&E to eat? The account at Genesis 1:29 quotes God as saying, “All seed-bearing plants (“green vegetation”, Genesis 9:3) I have given you for food.”
I’m sure even back in the day of the Genesis writer, I believe it was Moses, but back then, I’m sure there were some that were poisonous. Like today’s poison ivy, etc.
What does this tell us? That even the Bible intimates a change can occur within organisms. (And this is a beneficial change for the organisms, but harmful to us. No direction by God; just organisms left to fend for their own survival.)

Hope that explains it better.
Take care.

So then you must agree that natural mechanisms can indeed generate "complexity".

 

[Jose Fly]

“So many”?!
Which JW’s “pass themselves off as experts”?
Not me. I usually quote the experts.

Who calls themselves an expert?
Or was this just a sweeping generalization.

Every one who thinks they know more about genetics than geneticists, geology than geologists, biology than biologists, paleontology than paleontologists, evolution than evolutionary biologists, cosmology more than cosmologists.....

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So they're exclusive of one another. Interesting. Although astounding and -- frankly -- not believable. But anyway, you have a good day. Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, happy to say. So glad I studied with them and have faith in God, the true one. John 17:3 if you believe. "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

Having faith in God does not mean denying what we see with the eyes He gave us or denying understanding with mind He gave us. I don't deny the Work of God or that it is there for us to enjoy, study and understand.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So they're exclusive of one another. Interesting. Although astounding and -- frankly -- not believable. But anyway, you have a good day. Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, happy to say. So glad I studied with them and have faith in God, the true one. John 17:3 if you believe. "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

I've known your affiliation for some time, but I am glad you decided to let us all know anyway.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

God allows bad things to happen, including pathogens to infect men and animals. He does not cause this.

Are you saying there are things that God did not create in some way?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So they're exclusive of one another. Interesting. Although astounding and -- frankly -- not believable. But anyway, you have a good day. Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, happy to say. So glad I studied with them and have faith in God, the true one. John 17:3 if you believe. "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

What is not believable about it? I don't deny things that are based on evidence. I find that practice to be unbelievable.

Accepting reality is not the denial of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

What is not believable about it? I don't deny things that are based on evidence. I find that practice to be unbelievable.

Accepting reality is not the denial of God.

So do you believe that everlasting life is possible, or do you think that the Bible is a book of myths and made-up accounts, as so many do?

 

[YoursTrue]

Are you saying there are things that God did not create in some way?

I am saying that without God's intervention, things can and do go awry. That's what I am saying.

 

[YoursTrue]

I've known your affiliation for some time, but I am glad you decided to let us all know anyway.

And you are a ubiquitous Christian perhaps? All-embracing, like Protestant and Catholicism you would go by?