Why are Jehovah's Witnesses reluctant to discuss their faith?

[gnostic]

This have nothing to do with the thread, but the other night, I played back recorded message from a woman. She went on and on about Jehovah’s witnesses, citing some NT verses.

It broke the record for being the longest ever recorded message on my answering machine. LOL

 

[YoursTrue]

So let me try to understand you.

You did not reject evolution ideas because you belonged to some fanatical religion, right?

So, that being the case, it would be quite foolish of me, to say that religion is what drove you to not accept the theory, or it's because of not wanting to lose your religious friends, that you reject the theory of evolution, right?

I'll try to answer the best as I can. If you don't mind, I'll go over it again...
I believed what they taught me about evolution when I was in school and beyond that. I was an honor student. Later on I began studying with Jehovah's Witnesses even though I rejected them several times before that, and I learned more about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and -- His creative works. It took me a while to decide what I was going to do. I rejected at that time the proposition that life came about by chance (evolution) at the beginning, and the following idea of natural selection forming all types of organisms, I began looking into the theory in order to understand it better. I am not a scientist, but I have read as much as I could about how some would conclude that life just "happened" without a Creator, or an intelligent force behind putting it all together. I have found no cohesive response here or otherwise that can explain the details as if it's true, even though many say it's true. Conjectures abound, experiments are used to show that life came about by an undirected, unintelligent meeting of elements, but these are all ideas, as we know, not proof.
One more thing -- when there are laws, there is a Lawgiver. Scientists do agree there are laws of nature. Yet many cannot conclude there is a "lawmaker." I hope that helps to explain my position on this now. I accept the Bible's explanation that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth," this knowledge communicated from the God in heaven, the knowledge transferred to men.
I hope that helps.

 

[YoursTrue]

So let me try to understand you.

You did not reject evolution ideas because you belonged to some fanatical religion, right?

Right.

So, that being the case, it would be quite foolish of me, to say that religion is what drove you to not accept the theory, or it's because of not wanting to lose your religious friends, that you reject the theory of evolution, right?

I was curious as to what's behind the reasoning of those who adamantly profess the truthfulness of evolution, and some here have helped me to understand how they reason (or don't). First I studied the Bible to make sure that what I was learning from Jehovah's Witnesses was reasonable. I believed it was, and I still believe it is.

 

[Jose Fly]

The Bible does not detail with molecules and DNA transfer how things were done. The theory of evolution as described by Darwin and others similar, does not add up. Anymore to me. Obviously this is not everybody's view. Conjectures are made, of course, as to the sequence and origin (not speaking of abiogenesis here) but no one on this earth knows. I am not speaking of fossils. Looking at the actual beings, including the birth process, do not show to be in harmony with evolution. I am not discounting changes due to.DNA or possible interbreeding. Gorillas, for instance, do not make automobiles, gas statiins, or have medical schools. Or tv. Ants have remarkable qualities but simply do not advance the theory of evolution, rather they bespeak creative power far above the theory of Darwinian model of evolution.
Proverbs 6:6 "Go to the ant, you lazy one;
Observe its ways and become wise."

Again, from my perspective all of that is exactly what I expect any Jehovah's Witness to say. The faith presents you with a clear choice....either be a Jehovah's Witness and reject evolution, or you must leave the faith, be cut off from other Witnesses (even family), and believe that your life has no lasting purpose.

As I noted, that makes you about as biased as a person can be on a subject.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, from my perspective all of that is exactly what I expect any Jehovah's Witness to say. The faith presents you with a clear choice....either be a Jehovah's Witness and reject evolution, or you must leave the faith, be cut off from other Witnesses (even family), and believe that your life has no lasting purpose.

As I noted, that makes you about as biased as a person can be on a subject.

I find no reason to believe in the theory of evolution any more. I've said many times I used to believe what I was taught in school, including evolution, but now that I've studied the Bible, I no longer accept the theory of evolution as valid. One is that I believe the Bible is inspired of God, and the second is that upon investigation as much as possible, I find the theory has no solid foundation supporting the theory. It's basically conjectural opinion. I wonder if you want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses but realize that Witnesses do believe the Bible to be the word of God and so do not go along with the theory of evolution?

 

[ppp]

I find no reason to believe in the theory of evolution any more. I've said many times I used to believe what I was taught in school, including evolution, but now that I've studied the Bible, I no longer accept the theory of evolution as valid. One is that I believe the Bible is inspired of God, and the second is that upon investigation as much as possible, I find the theory has no solid foundation supporting the theory. It's basically conjectural opinion. I wonder if you want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses but realize that Witnesses do believe the Bible to be the word of God and so do not go along with the theory of evolution?

That is merely what you believe.

 

[nPeace]

I find no reason to believe in the theory of evolution any more. I've said many times I used to believe what I was taught in school, including evolution, but now that I've studied the Bible, I no longer accept the theory of evolution as valid. One is that I believe the Bible is inspired of God, and the second is that upon investigation as much as possible, I find the theory has no solid foundation supporting the theory. It's basically conjectural opinion. I wonder if you want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses but realize that Witnesses do believe the Bible to be the word of God and so do not go along with the theory of evolution?

Very nice YoursTrue.
You are right. They want to be one of JWs, but they realize that we believe the Bible, and reject the ToE, and so they do not want the stigma attached to them, so they hold on to their belief in ToE... though their evidence is below poor... not even average.
Yup. It's that bad.

I like your experience. It reminded me of our WT discussion on Sunday. Paragraph 8.
"For example, sooner or later you will come across the God-dishonoring theory of evolution. You may have given little or no thought to the subject when you were younger, but now that you are older, perhaps you are confronted with it directly in school. What your teachers say in support of evolution may seem logical and convincing. However, they may have never seriously considered the evidence of the existence of a Creator. Remember the principle found at Proverbs 18:17: “The first to state his case seems right, until the other party comes and cross-examines him.” Instead of blindly accepting ideas that you hear at school as fact, carefully consider the truths found in God’s Word, the Bible. Do research in our publications. Talk to brothers and sisters who believed in evolution in the past. Ask them what convinced them that there is a Creator who loves us. Such upbuilding discussions can help you to focus on the facts."

Some people don't want to consider the truth found in God's word. They do everything they can to dismiss those facts.
However, we accept those facts, and facts do not conflict. It's one or the other.

Sadly, some "Christians" have compromised, because of not wanting to be stigmatized, and like the one you referred to, they believe the ToE, and reject the truth in the Bible, as myths.

 

[Jose Fly]

What th.....so now the thinking is that I secretly want to be a Jehovah's Witness, but darn it, I'd have to believe the Bible and I just can't do that?

Wow. I've seen some bizarre things from creationists before, but this one goes above and beyond.

 

[danieldemol]

What th.....so now the thinking is that I secretly want to be a Jehovah's Witness, but darn it, I'd have to believe the Bible and I just can't do that?

Wow. I've seen some bizarre things from creationists before, but this one goes above and beyond.

It appears to me to be a form of levelling. See Leveling as a Manipulation Tactic.

In my opinion

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Well yeah, because to many creationists, folks like you (theistic evolutionists) are a bigger threat. Atheist evolutionists like Richard Dawkins play into the fundamentalists' false dichotomy, where it's either evolution (atheism) or creation, with no middle ground. Theistic evolutionists like you and Francis Collins destroy that contrivance by demonstrating that one can indeed acknowledge the reality of evolution but not have to abandon belief in God, which fundamentalists fear will be alluring.

So on that basis, you must be opposed, attacked, and stopped at every turn. You're a very real threat.

What I see is a claim that one cannot be a man of God and subscribe to science. From a Christian perspective, this amounts to a demand that the Word of God be taken literally, but the Works of God should be vehemently ignored. Even opposed. Which makes no sense to me.

What saddens me most is to have someone claim friendship to me while at the same time considering my views make me equivalent to an adulterer or murderer. I may follow a different doctrine than Jehovah's Witnesses, but I don't consider them equivalent to the most loathsome practitioners of sin for that difference. I don't agree with their doctrine for many reasons I have stated elsewhere. Recognizing that they often practice a rejection of science based largely on ignorance of science and adherence to doctrine over reason and evidence isn't a condemnation of their Christianity. While, I have discovered that doesn't go both ways. Unfortunately, it is a means of segregation fairly common among parts of all Christian denominations and between most of the various religions, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

I can see how the spread of the acceptance of science within Christianity would be a threat to doctrines opposed to anything that challenges a literal interpretation of the Bible. Oddly, claiming that "day" in Genesis could mean a timespan different than a 24 hour day means that one is no longer interpreting the Bible literally. The dichotomy of that is lost apparently.