Interesting. I originally asked the question rhetorically, but now we can go off on another discussion about this.
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Why are men denied sexual pleasures by religions?
- Thread starter haribol
- Start date
Interesting. I originally asked the question rhetorically, but now we can go off on another discussion about this.
You can compare the Ancient Greek meaning of hubris. (not the modern day meaning.)
Me Myself
Back to my username
You mean as something that could stop a person as the one I described from raping? I would ascribe it to my mention of moral principles stopping him/her.
Or did you meant something else?
Mst people look at pride as a good thing
Because there are sexual organs involved is the same assumption I disagree with as Kilgore was arguing earlier. Did you get my pencil analogy from earlier?
First question - what do you have against feminist sources?
Second question - can you provide the link you found anyway?
Why naivete? My work in peer groups with rape survivors might suggest I'm not all that naive.
I ask the same question I did Kilgore: What distinguishes rape from sex? What makes it a crime, and not a consensual act?
Me Myself
Back to my username
You probably didnt get my response. I said that killing someone with a pencil doesnt equate writing unless there is acutal writing, like writing in their skin.
Ten, it does not need to be about writing, given we do not have a biological need to write, but it could be about expressing oneself. In the cas eyou propose, someone killing someone else with a pencil and writting something with his victims blood mit be trying to express something in a ( absolutely cruel immmoral and depraved) way s/he found artistic.
From my limited experience, they love to paint things as black and white as they can, which I have never found trustworthy.
I'll search the link briefly
1- good for them
2- there are many ways to be naive. Because you know the side of the story of the victim, does not mean you know the motivations of the aggresor.
3-with how many rapists have you talked about the subject?
Its funny, firs t I ll give you an analogy and then I ll answer.
What distinguishes penguins from birds? What makes them unable to fly and non aereodynamic?
I see your question in the same way. Rape is a specific form of sex, which diferentiates itself from other forms of it because it becomes an act of aggression and transgression because of lack of consensus of one or more parties.
This may be stretching the topic of the thread a bit, but this might be worth investigating in relation to the link between sex and aggression.
Organisms that employ both asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction will reproduce asexually when times are good, (no genetic mixing--if it ain't broke, then don't fix it) and will reproduce sexually when under environmental stress (to mix up the DNA to find something that will work better.) While this involves mostly invertebrate critters, there might be some sort of deep-seated common instinctual thing linking sex with stress, as aggression is also linked with stress. It might be difficult to really explore, though.
Organisms that employ both asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction will reproduce asexually when times are good, (no genetic mixing--if it ain't broke, then don't fix it) and will reproduce sexually when under environmental stress (to mix up the DNA to find something that will work better.) While this involves mostly invertebrate critters, there might be some sort of deep-seated common instinctual thing linking sex with stress, as aggression is also linked with stress. It might be difficult to really explore, though.
I brought up the analogy because of the only similarity between the two acts is the tool involved. Rape is a crime not about sex, but about control and power. The victim is seen as a commodity, not an actual person.
Yes, you have a very limited experience with feminist writings. Dare I say - none. You've read ABOUT feminist writings, but steer clear of them. That's a real shame, since feminist writings and studies done on the subject of rape have produced some complex and nuanced works.
I'll search the link briefly
Thank you.
1- good for them
2- there are many ways to be naive. Because you know the side of the story of the victim, does not mean you know the motivations of the aggresor.
3-with how many rapists have you talked about the subject?
How many have YOU talked with about the subject? Your experience has been reading ABOUT the subject, and not merely that, but an admittedly LIMITED amount of writings due to another admitted bias on your part.
A month-long subject of mine in my grad work was the movement patterns of penguins. Be careful here since I've done quite a bit of study and work on this.
Do you also tell children who have been victimized by predators that they experienced just another form of sex, too? Or is that something else entirely?
Me Myself
Back to my username
I brought up the analogy because of the only similarity between the two acts is the tool involved. Rape is a crime not about sex, but about control and power. The victim is seen as a commodity, not an actual person.
Yes, you have a very limited experience with feminist writings. Dare I say - none. You've read ABOUT feminist writings, but steer clear of them. That's a real shame, since feminist writings and studies done on the subject of rape have produced some complex and nuanced works.
Thank you.
How many have YOU talked with about the subject? Your experience has been reading ABOUT the subject, and not merely that, but an admittedly LIMITED amount of writings due to another admitted bias on your part.
A month-long subject of mine in my grad work was the movement patterns of penguins. Be careful here since I've done quite a bit of study and work on this.
Do you also tell children who have been victimized by predators that they experienced just another form of sex, too? Or is that something else entirely?
Why would I say that? Thats like telling a victim of a drunk driver that he just experienced another form of driving. Not because it is true means it is sensible or relevant in all contexts.
I ve heard feminist talks too. As I said I have very liimited info on the subjectbut it is still not 0. Now, you probably disagree with the takes of the feminist Ive heard, as you have. Then again, feminism doesnt ebenefit from the true scottman phalacy either.
The thing is that there is obvious issue of sexual gratification. Even those at say it is mainly about power and agression in most cases still say it is MAINLY (not only) about agression and power in MOST ( not all) cases.
The only thing I am aying is that it is ridiculous to think that NO rapist is EVER to find sexual gratification to be EVEN REMOTELY one of its motivations
Why wouldn't you say that to a victim? Oh dear, it's not because it's rather obtuse, is it? Or suggesting that rape is just another form of sex is seen by those who propose it as being merely inconsequential when it means MUCH more than that.
So, admitted bias, admitted limited experience with studying up on the subject, and yet you still believe your arguments have merit beyond personal reflection? You'd skewer somebody else if they suggested they knew about the Bible but didn't read it at all or just saw a few lectures on it.
Obvious issue of sexual gratification?
Explain prison rape within that context, please.
I've once heard that convicted violent criminals have been known to suffer from delusional rationalizations. I think I even watched a video on it once, or twice, or whatever....it doesn't matter what I've read up on mental disorders in the criminal population. Just take my word for it and take me seriously.
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Look what happens when the lines between "rape" and "sex" are blurred:
BBC News - Maldives girl to get 100 lashes for pre-marital sex
Goodness, listen to the stepfather. He obviously was only wanting sexual gratification here, right...?
BBC News - Maldives girl to get 100 lashes for pre-marital sex
Goodness, listen to the stepfather. He obviously was only wanting sexual gratification here, right...?
Or when rape is seen as the female's fault because of her sexual attractiveness.
Precisely.
"She was raped."
"Yeah? Well, she was super hot. I just wanted to have my way with her."
"See, feminists? Don't you see that rape has a sexual component to it? He was attracted to her so it's OBVIOUSLY about sex, too."
Let's try a different analogy--a biological one. Everyone needs to urinate--it is a biological need. There are appropriate places to urinate, and inappropriate places to urinate.You probably didnt get my response. I said that killing someone with a pencil doesnt equate writing unless there is acutal writing, like writing in their skin.
Ten, it does not need to be about writing, given we do not have a biological need to write, but it could be about expressing oneself. In the cas eyou propose, someone killing someone else with a pencil and writting something with his victims blood mit be trying to express something in a ( absolutely cruel immmoral and depraved) way s/he found artistic.
From my limited experience, they love to paint things as black and white as they can, which I have never found trustworthy.
I'll search the link briefly
1- good for them
2- there are many ways to be naive. Because you know the side of the story of the victim, does not mean you know the motivations of the aggresor.
3-with how many rapists have you talked about the subject?
Its funny, firs t I ll give you an analogy and then I ll answer.
What distinguishes penguins from birds? What makes them unable to fly and non aereodynamic?
I see your question in the same way. Rape is a specific form of sex, which diferentiates itself from other forms of it because it becomes an act of aggression and transgression because of lack of consensus of one or more parties.
We but diapers on babies because they have not matured enough to gain self-control to avoid urinating in inappropriate places, while they learn about appropriate places to urinate.
That said, there is a big difference between peeing in the toilet, peeing on someone, and deliberately peeing in someone's cornflakes.
Pleading "It's just a natural biological function!" for deliberately peeing in someone's cornflakes is hubris in the ancient Greek sense of the word.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Repression is not the least bit dangerous...
Do you think your equipment will explode if it is not utilised.
Normal men can live perfectly fulfilled lives with out sex at all.
These things are not outlets or blockages.
men should stop thinking sex is a right or even necessary... it is not.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
In Muslim countries they cut off hands when people steal.
What do the cut of when they rape?
What do the cut of when they rape?
Today we are engendering ideological jungles to get lost in jungles of ideas. Juggling extremes has been the fad of the day. I know bunches of hanger-on who stick to an ideology and they have a Guru and no matter what nonsense he utters their devotees take them literally. All these Gurus and religious pundits living perverse lives themselves hem people in the quandary of things. They disapprove of acts of sex and yet they indulge in it themselves.
[FONT="]Suppression done under the sway of religion indeed leads to explosion at the end of the day. They tend to behave irrationally if they put restraints on their sensory organs [/FONT]
[FONT="]Suppression done under the sway of religion indeed leads to explosion at the end of the day. They tend to behave irrationally if they put restraints on their sensory organs [/FONT]
Ahh, you are referring to celibacy for monks, and blaming that for rapes? Gotcha.
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Hmm. A slight shift in perception might be in order here. I thought the restraint was to be put on the mind, rather than the sensory organs. If you put the restraint on the sensory organs and not on the mind, then of course you are going to get irrationality and such. Craving still exists within the mind, and it will consume your willpower if you don't tame or transform it.
Isn't the goal to see all women as one would see their own mother? You don't go lusting after your mother, do you? What's the difference between your mother and other women that you don't lust after her? You love and respect your mother as a person--she's not just an object. The goal is to be able to extend that same love and respect to all women. (Lifelong celibacy is not necessary to achieve this--working on your mind is what is necessary, imo.)
At times when mind is not in sync with body imbalance is likely to happen. It is indeed the symmetry between mind and body that keeps people poised. When the body wants a sensual fulfillment and the mind denies it on the religious ground and the mind will not be in harmony with the body and hence this state leads to a repressive state. When we condition the mind in accord with religious sermons or orders we give up on the emotional quotient. The mind act rationally and the body emotionally going poles apart
Perhaps this passage from the Gospel of Thomas might help:
7. Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."