Why are 'messengers', 'prophets', 'avataras' always male?

[sun rise]

Unfortunately there are (or were not in the time of seers, messengers and prophets) not many men who considered wisdom can come from a woman. Perhaps i should qualify that and say male believers in the abrahamic god who have always considered women should shut up and do as they are told

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Timothy 2:12

And many other verses commanding a woman should shut up and accept their lot

I agree in general about Christianity.

The Catholic church has been of two minds. On the one hand, emphasizing male dominance in the church hierarchy. On the other side having a prayer to Mary for divine intervention. Pope Francis is taking very tiny steps to opening doors just a wee bit for women so maybe someday that will change.

 

[ChristineM]

I agree in general about Christianity.

The Catholic church has been of two minds. On the one hand, emphasizing male dominance in the church hierarchy. On the other side having a prayer to Mary for divine intervention. Pope Francis is taking very tiny steps to opening doors just a wee bit for women so maybe someday that will change.

There is change, women are attaining leadership in some church denominations but it is still relitively few.

In the biggest religious group in the world it will never happen
Pope Francis says women will never be Roman Catholic priests

 

[Trailblazer]

Would it have been so hard for your God to have come to earth is a female body for once?

I think that eventually that will happen and I might have seen that in the Baha'i Writings somewhere.

Just think of how long it took for a woman to be nominated for President of the United States and we still have not had a woman President. I hope that at least we will have a woman for VP next fall.

 

[Vinayaka]

I suspect it is purely a matter of the prevailing culture at the time. It would have been quite hard for a woman to have had the freedom to travel around, to speak and be listened to and generally to be an authority, in many of these ancient societies. The Christian church has had a fairly good number of women saints from its earliest days however, starting with Mary. While these may not have been prophets, they are revered role models, to whom prayers are directed.

And today?

Edited ... Thank you. This seems to be the most logical response so far. Thanks also for directly addressing the question.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is an extension from Salix's thread on the gender of god.

Personally I don't believe in any of the ideas in the title, and one of the reasons is that they're always male, which seems a very human thing, and not a godly thing. So those of who do believe in God descending to a man, etc., can you give a reason and defend it for Christ, Muhammad, Baha'ullah, Krishna, Rama, always being male. Would it have been so hard for your God to have come to earth is a female body for once?

The Baha’i conception of God has Prophets, Messengers and Avatars but it is only the small number we know who are male. There may have been female Manifestations in the past who are lost in the mist of time or female Manifestations in the future. Then there are the countless sages, saints and mystics who may be either male or female.

 

[Quintessence]

In my experience, God's most important avatar was a woman. That woman was my mom. Regardless of how others viewed her, the work she did was that of an angel. I bet some other folks have had amazing moms too who were also avatars of God for their grace, charity, kindness, and unconditional love. Who cares if our moms are not famous? They mean the world to their children who were blessed with knowing them.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Baha’i conception of God has Prophets, Messengers and Avatars but it is only the small number we know who are male. There may have been female Manifestations in the past who are lost in the mist of time or female Manifestations in the future. Then there are the countless sages, saints and mystics who may be either male or female.

Until the UHJ allows women, I just can't take Baha'i talk seriously, sorry.

Nor is conjecture about the past or future helpful to the question. I think 'history of the times' seems to be the most logical answer. At the times of self-declared prophets, those societies was largely chauvinistic. Many still are. I do see a slight shift though.

On a side note, I researched 'delusions of grandeur' again, and it seems that the gender ratio for the disorder seems to be about 50/50. So that leaves us more with the question, "Why were male figures given more status?" It seems that the average Joe would listen up more to a male than to a female. That's certainly the case in politics and business.

But the question was really only about avatars, messiahs, the 'special powers' group, and not about politics or doctors or nice people in general.

 

[Nimos]

This is an extension from Salix's thread on the gender of god.

Personally I don't believe in any of the ideas in the title, and one of the reasons is that they're always male, which seems a very human thing, and not a godly thing. So those of who do believe in God descending to a man, etc., can you give a reason and defend it for Christ, Muhammad, Baha'ullah, Krishna, Rama, always being male. Would it have been so hard for your God to have come to earth is a female body for once?

Freya (‘lady’) was the Norse goddess of love, fertility, sorcery, gold, war and death. She was not an Aesir god, but one of the secondary Vanir gods. The two races fought in the past and Freya was sent to live in Asgard the word of Aesir gods as a hostage.

Frigg (‘beloved one’) was the consort of Odin and the goddess of love, marriage and motherhood. She was also a prophetess, but never revealed the secrets she saw. She must have been very understanding, as Odin had many extra marital affairs, and many children by other beings, including Thor.

Idun was the goddess of spring and youth in Norse mythology. She was the guardian of the apples of youth that grew in Asgard and supplied them to the gods to maintain their youth.

Yet another fertility goddess, Sif was associated with grain and her long golden hair probably represented the golden fields. She was the wife of Thor, and in some sources was also equated with the oracle Sibyl.

Sigyn is the wife of Loki in Norse mythology. For his role in the death of Balder, Loki was chained to a rock with a poisonous snake suspended over his head to painfully drip venom onto his face for all eternity.

The Norse goddess Eir (‘help’ or ‘mercy’) was linked with medical skill and is described as a very good physician. Some sources for Norse mythology suggest that she was a Valkyrie rather than a goddess.

Hel, Daughter of Loki, according to Norse mythology Hel ruled over the Norse underworld. This was a place not just for the wicked, but any Viking that did not die in battle.

Jord, giantess goddess personifying the Earth; mother of Thor.

And there are many more in norse mythology.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Anyone laughing ?

Why should anyone laugh?

Lord Vishnu in Mohini Avatara. Shiva went berserk.

In Hinduism, there are seers and seeresses who are enlightened, with knowledge (Jnani). Off hand, I remember Gargi. There were others as well before whom Gods bowed, Lopamudra, the wife of Sage Agastya, or Anusuya, wife of Sage Atri.

 

[Valjean]

Haven't there been many celebrated female prophets through history, from the ancient Pythiai to Sister Aimee McPherson?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Until the UHJ allows women, I just can't take Baha'i talk seriously, sorry.

Nor is conjecture about the past or future helpful to the question. I think 'history of the times' seems to be the most logical answer. At the times of self-declared prophets, those societies was largely chauvinistic. Many still are. I do see a slight shift though.

On a side note, I researched 'delusions of grandeur' again, and it seems that the gender ratio for the disorder seems to be about 50/50. So that leaves us more with the question, "Why were male figures given more status?" It seems that the average Joe would listen up more to a male than to a female. That's certainly the case in politics and business.

But the question was really only about avatars, messiahs, the 'special powers' group, and not about politics or doctors or nice people in general.

Issues aside about how seriously the Baha’i Faith should be taken, the concepts of Prophets, Messengers and Avatars are important to Judaism, Christianity, Islam and within some traditions of Hinduism.

In regards identifiable characters whom most historians would agree were real as opposed to mythical, we have the likes of Buddha, Christ and Muhammad. There are a few other Prophets mentioned in the Hebrew, Christian and Islamic scriptures such as King David and the like. However we’re talking about a period of history from about 1,000 BC up until 700 CE. Civilisations during this period were largely male dominated, wars were frequent, most people were directly involved in working the land or farming, and societies were very hierarchical. Little wonder that most religious leaders along with founders of religion were male.

There is a reasonable case to be made that historical figures who were considered in the category of your OP were very humble people but it was their followers who exaggerated their status. That’s another topic though. The reasons few women were leaders of nations or religions is simply a product of men dominating societies through their more aggressive qualities physically and mentally. That period in history hasn’t disappeared though as is evidenced by many countries in the world today. We still have a long way to go before the status of women is fully realised.

 

[`mud]

As said a lot of times here and else ware,
you tend to humanize your spirit leaders.

To me, if `God` really exists, `God` would be,

PURE SPIRIT

 

[stvdv]

This is an extension from Salix's thread on the gender of god.

Personally I don't believe in any of the ideas in the title, and one of the reasons is that they're always male, which seems a very human thing, and not a godly thing. So those of who do believe in God descending to a man, etc., can you give a reason and defend it for Christ, Muhammad, Baha'ullah, Krishna, Rama, always being male. Would it have been so hard for your God to have come to earth is a female body for once?

Why are 'messengers', 'prophets', 'avataras' always male?

Sai Baba gave us something to ponder...see who is mentioned first:
Radha-Krishna
Sita-Rama

And Sai Baba also said:
Rama had "only" 12 Divine Attributes, whereas Sita had all 16

 

[Vinayaka]

Why are 'messengers', 'prophets', 'avataras' always male?

Sai Baba gave us something to ponder...see who is mentioned first:
Radha-Krishna
Sita-Rama

And Sai Baba also said:
Rama had "only" 12 Divine Attributes, whereas Sita had all 16

Maybe Prem Sai will be female.

 

[stvdv]

Maybe Prem Sai will be female.

Sai Baba did say:
Shirdi was a Shiva incarnation
Sathya was a Shiva/Shakti incaration
Prema will be a Shakti incarnation

But I first have to see "Her" before believing all

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is an extension from Salix's thread on the gender of god.

Personally I don't believe in any of the ideas in the title, and one of the reasons is that they're always male, which seems a very human thing, and not a godly thing. So those of who do believe in God descending to a man, etc., can you give a reason and defend it for Christ, Muhammad, Baha'ullah, Krishna, Rama, always being male. Would it have been so hard for your God to have come to earth is a female body for once?

Hi Vinayaka. Hope you’re doing well and keeping safe.

That’s a very good question and I don’t know the real answer, but the life of a Prophet is not one of ease and comfort and often involves many forms of cruelty and unbearable tortures including things like stoning, exile, bastinado and crucifixion. I think that God, in His compassion and mercy, so far, has been reluctant to put any woman through such an ordeal.

Even us men are not too keen on sending our women to fight a war, more out of protection and love for them. So, I think God has, up until now, spared women from the unimaginable suffering a Prophet can go through, out of love and compassion for them.

 

[firedragon]

This is an extension from Salix's thread on the gender of god.

Personally I don't believe in any of the ideas in the title, and one of the reasons is that they're always male, which seems a very human thing, and not a godly thing. So those of who do believe in God descending to a man, etc., can you give a reason and defend it for Christ, Muhammad, Baha'ullah, Krishna, Rama, always being male. Would it have been so hard for your God to have come to earth is a female body for once?

This has been debated for probably thousands of years, but I can definitely tell you that it was debated for thousand years in the Islamic circles. Some theologians in the Islamic tradition negated Mary the mother of Jesus's prophethood and of course some others as well due to their gender but then there were other theologians who negated that kind of sexism as innovation. The Qur'an calls Mary as a Siddique and the same statement is made at Yusuf, of course this is among other statements. That being said, you should also understand that the Quran will have 25 men and one woman so your question is perfectly fair.

The Quran calls the angel Gabriel as a messenger, and he speaks to Mary in the same manner as he spoke to Muhammed. There is absolutely no difference in the manner, yet the difference is in the receiving of a scripture. But, Mary is mentioned 32 times in the Quran and Muhammed is only mentioned 4 times.

Also as I understand there were female prophets in Judaism. In Islamic tradition Sarah is a prophet. In the Bible exodus Miriam is a prophet. Deborah, the judge and wife of Lappidoth (Judg 4:4); Huldah, the wife of the keeper of the royal wardrobe (2 Kgs 22:14); Noadiah (Neh 6:14); Isaiah’s wife (Isa 8:3). In the New Testament, Anna gave praise to God at the arrival of Jesus (Luke 2:36); Philip’s four daughters were called prophetesses (Acts 21:9). Paul notes also that the gifts of prophecy were exercised by Christians of both sexes in the early Christian community (1 Cor 11:45). In both Testaments, there are also false prophets and false prophetesses (Ezek 13:17; Rev 2:20). In Hinduism Lakshmi, Parvathi, Saraswathi are female God's.

I am not claiming its equal in statistics and honestly this cannot be answered intellectually because saying "this is why" is assuming Gods mind. All that can be said is that there were prophets, and there were Gods of the female gender.

Cheers.