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Why are people afraid of their beliefs being questioned ?

Erebus

Well-Known Member
Na, you got it all wrong, I myself cannot prove what I experienced, this experience is known as Enlightenment, I have written a book about that experience, but I will never argue that my experience is true or not, I cannot prove it to you, I will talk about it to those who are interested but not try to convert others, for what could i convert them to. You could argue that its all in my mind and I will agree, that where the experience was experienced in my mind.

Fair enough :)


I try to pick my words as carefully as i can, but at the same time i will be honest in what i do say, why should i have to tiptoe on glass just for others, we all say the wrong thing at times, i have never meet anyone who hasn't, that's life.

You have recommended what you think i should do, but why should i take you advise, do you represent everyone here, I know i don't.

I'm not suggesting you tiptoe exactly, I was pointing out that the language you chose reflected that of people who come to these forums with the express purpose of trying to change others to their way of thinking. As you say, I don't represent everybody here and if you don't want to take my advice on board I can't make you. However, If I pick up on the similarity it's a fair assumption other people are going to. Your call on that one.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Doubting the miracles of Jesus is one thing, but denying His existence all together is quite another. The arguments for non-existence are based on shabby research. The issue of miracles is a religious/theological one.

I have to agree here, not that anyone cares. :p Fwiw I don't doubt Jesus's existence or historicity. I lean towards non-divinity, but who's actually to say? Perhaps he was a bodhisattva, yogi or any other name for an enlightened self-realized being.

What's that line from Hamlet... ? "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Not to mention J.B.S. Haldane's quote (often attributed to Sir Arthur Eddington in a slightly different wording) "Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Just wanted to chime in here, because this is quite a good illustration of why I tend to avoid most discussions on the forum. Without meaning to be rude, this is quite basic ground to me. I've been through the whole theism vs atheism, empiricism vs faith vs pragmatism etc over and over to the point where it's just not that important or interesting to me anymore.
When I see somebody post the fairy analogy for example, I feel that if they start questioning my theism (which they have every right to do, I agree) all that's going to happen is I'll rehash the same old stuff for the umpteenth time and not learn anything new or valuable. All that just to get them "up to speed" so to speak just isn't worth it. This is also assuming that their questioning is genuine, proselytization and trolling thinly concealed in curiosity is hardly new here.

This may come across as arrogant, but it's at least honest. When I first joined the forum I was only too happy to engage in debates over the merits of theism. Nowadays I just feel that I've "been there, done that" and not seen anything new brought to the table in a long time.

I learned a long time ago that it is next to impossible to change anyone's mind about anything especially when it comes to deeply held beliefs. The more dogmatic someone is the harder it is and this is true of both religious people and non-religious people. So I no longer try. As my siggy says the only mind I'm here to change is my own so if I engage in debate I am really only testing my own beliefs. A lot of beliefs I've held over the years failed that test so I rejected them. But there are some things I no longer debate because they are completely unproductive. I've been over that ground too many times before and rehashing them I'm not learning anything new.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Returning to the topic and no longer getting sidetracked by examples, I don't see that many people being afraid of being questioned. I think they may feel annoyed. On this forum when someone outside a DIR enters, and ask questions, there may be several reasons for it, and it's difficult to determine, as both sides make assumptions, and neither side's assumptions may be correct.

For example, if a person chooses to not answer, it doesn't necessarily mean they are afraid. On the other side, just because a person asks a question doesn't mean they're out to get you or belittle your faith either.

But, yeah, I'm wary of motive. Thank goodness for moderators some days.
 
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psychoslice

Veteran Member
and you know this how...?

Because it goes against the laws of this universe, its funny how all these miracles happened so much in the past and all of a sudden just disappeared, that is when we became more intelligent and started to question everything.

These so called miracles were never meant to be taken literally, they have beautiful metaphors behind them, just like mythology has, the idea is to try and understand what the story means to you, at whatever level of consciousness you are that's the level of the story you will see.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I learned a long time ago that it is next to impossible to change anyone's mind about anything especially when it comes to deeply held beliefs. The more dogmatic someone is the harder it is and this is true of both religious people and non-religious people. So I no longer try. As my siggy says the only mind I'm here to change is my own so if I engage in debate I am really only testing my own beliefs. A lot of beliefs I've held over the years failed that test so I rejected them. But there are some things I no longer debate because they are completely unproductive. I've been over that ground too many times before and rehashing them I'm not learning anything new.

I totally agree, i certainly don't want people to think like I do, I prefer them to think for themselves, all i'm saying is let your beliefs be question, it may in the long run be the best thing you ever did.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Returning to the topic and no longer getting sidetracked by examples, I don't see that may people being afraid of being questioned. I think they may feel annoyed. On this forum when someone outside a DIR enters, and ask questions, there may be several reasons for it, and it's difficult to determine, as both sides make assumptions, and neither side's assumptions may be correct.

For example, if a person chooses to not answer, it doesn't necessarily mean they are afraid. On the other side, just because a person asks a question doesn't mean they're out to get you or belittle your faith either.

But, yeah, I'm wary of motive. Thank goodness for moderators some days.

Well said, but I have to say that there are moderators who do let their own opinions get in the way, they must be neutral and not let their own emotions judge others through their own beliefs.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Well said, but I have to say that there are moderators who do let their own opinions get in the way, they must be neutral and not let their own emotions judge others through their own beliefs.

That may well be impossible, given the nature of the mind. All minds have a slant. The best one can do is think it over a bit before responding. I didn't volunteer to moderate, so I'm in no position to complain.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
One of human beings' strongest psychological drives is to protect and maintain their sense of self-identity. When this sense of self-identity is perceived to be attacked, questioned, or ridiculed, the psyche responds with powerful self-defense mechanisms designed to help protect one's internal self-image. This self-defense mechanism can often express itself as defensiveness, fear, or insecurity, or aggression and anger, as an extension.

The problem comes in when one's sense of self-identity is strongly correlated with, and derived from, a group identity which requires or assumes agreement with its purported truth. Any questioning of the dogmatic claims of the group identity (particularly rational and/or factual questioning), is instantly translated by the person as a threat not only to the views of the group identity, but in turn, their own sense of self-identity and worth. This then generally expresses through psychological self-defense mechanisms.

Of course, many peoples' worldview and sense of identity isn't based on a fundamental respect for the value of truth, and thus, engaging in debate or discussion with them is not only an emotionally-charged and pscyhologically-draining experience for them, but also a fruitless exercise for anyone misguided enough to argue with them in the hope of teaching or enlightening them.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
I totally agree, i certainly don't want people to think like I do, I prefer them to think for themselves, all i'm saying is let your beliefs be question, it may in the long run be the best thing you ever did.

I already do so.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I already do so.

That's great, be happy where you are, that's what its all about, its just when were not sure of where we are, is really where we want to be that we don't like others questioning us. Lets question each other until there are no more questions to ask, its the only true way to find your own truth.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Kilgore Trout ; but also a fruitless exercise for anyone misguided enough to argue with them in the hope of teaching or enlightening them.

Yep that is certainly true, no one can Enlightened another, and those who are Enlightened realize that all are as they are, one Consciousness.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
That's great, be happy where you are, that's what its all about, its just when were not sure of where we are, is really where we want to be that we don't like others questioning us. Lets question each other until there are no more questions to ask, its the only true way to find your own truth.

Great. I am questioning your belief that miracles are impossible. ;)
 
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