Why are we allowed to suffer?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am asking this question if there really is an eternal blissful afterlife. I personally am agnostic and don't know if there is a God and an afterlife. But if there is an eternal blissful afterlife, then why aren't we all born up there where we can live forever happy and not have any suffering and misery in our lives?

Some people value suffering. But others do not and are completely miserable. They resort to suicide. There is no reason for such people to be here and suffer like that. There is everything wrong with suffering. I have struggled with depression and my life has lost all joy and meaning. You don't realize just how much my life has been taken away from me.

Some people would say that we are here to learn and grow and that suffering is for our personal learning and development. If this is so, then that is no God at all. That is no loving caring God at all. You don't realize the torment that others go through. Many have lost all joy and meaning in their lives and resort to suicide.

There is no reason for this. There is no reason for innocent people to suffer like this. They are not evil people out harming and tormenting others, so there is no need for them to be here and suffer. They should of been born in heaven (the eternal blissful afterlife) and just stayed there for all eternity where they can be forever happy and never have to be suicidal and miserable.

The only reason why I think we are here and suffer is because this universe came about through random chance and that what happens to us in life just simply happens and nothing more. That there is no grand reason for any of it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I ask this every time some one posts this idea, what is wrong with suffering? I'm still waiting for a coherent answer.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I ask this every time some one posts this idea, what is wrong with suffering? I'm still waiting for a coherent answer.

Everything. I have struggled with depression and my life has lost all joy and meaning. You don't realize just how much my life has been taken away from me.

 

[Akivah]

What I don't understand whenever this question arises, is why do people think that G-d ever promised that there would be no suffering during our lives?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Everything. I have struggled with depression and my life has lost all joy and meaning. You don't realize just how much my life has been taken away from me.

What is your vision or idea of god?

If god is like a parent, do we expect our parent to prevent us from suffering? They try to prevent us from harm, but people suffer for many reasons that can only (in my view) be addressed by the person himself. If god is a parent, that is probably why he isn't intervening in the way many people like, is because, like a parent he makes ways so you won't suffer but he doesn't physically intervene to prevent it. It's about your relationship with god rather than (in my view) god's relationship with you. It's what you put into learning about god and the nature of suffering in comparison (rather than contrast) to the nature of living.



As for depression, I have suffered from clinical depression. This is just my personal opinion based on experience. Learning about god and spirituality does help in general for people who believe in god.

It has helped millions. However, actual depression needs to be treated by a professional. I know god is said to be "a professional" but in order to think clearly in a general sense, I think addressing the depression would be the first start. If god is making you confused rather than helping you out of depression, maybe relax from thinking of god right now and focus on your mental well-being.



This is just my opinion. With god, I don't think a loving-god would want his children to suffer. Then, depending on if you are christian minded-it wasn't his choice but in some denominations, ours. So, it depends on how you see it rather than what you hear or read.

 

[wizanda]

Why are we allowed to suffer?

Basically when we question it we're in a place between Heaven and Hell...
[GALLERY=media, 7191][/GALLERY]
We're not here to suffer, we're here to learn to transduce negativity into positivity; to turn ego into Oneness, and yet due to ego seeming to be the more powerful, the world is getting a worse place.

Also some religions actually have to love suffering, and take pleasure in being martyrs, as they think they'll gain reward for it.

Having also suffered with suicidal depression for years, i understand how you feel....

Yet there are ways out of it, getting fit helps, changing our diet to not cause suffering; we're meant to be in bliss, yet there are that many poisons we can put into our self.

Depression can be a symptom of not heading in the right direction to begin; so by changing our life around, we can become what we wanted to be.

What I don't understand whenever this question arises, is why do people think that G-d ever promised that there would be no suffering during our lives?

Within context of the question asked, and having seen Heaven in my NDE, there is a place of pure bliss; therefore it is possible for God to create a place that hasn't got suffering, yet that isn't the realm we're within...

Here is a place for those who need to learn how to be righteous, and to deal with our demons, so some of us can free ourselves by our good behavior.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Everything. I have struggled with depression and my life has lost all joy and meaning. You don't realize just how much my life has been taken away from me.

"Everything" is not an answer that satisfies my question. Please qualify at least one aspect of everything.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

What I don't understand whenever this question arises, is why do people think that G-d ever promised that there would be no suffering during our lives?

Because people say that there is an eternal blissful afterlife (heaven) and I see no reason for us to be here and suffer when we can be born up there. Also, if this God does have the power to keep us from suffering and to make our lives an eternal blissful one, then this is no God at all. A God who would allow people to suffer like this is the most cruel God.

What is your vision or idea of god?

If god is like a parent, do we expect our parent to prevent us from suffering? They try to prevent us from harm, but people suffer for many reasons that can only (in my view) be addressed by the person himself. If god is a parent, that is probably why he isn't intervening in the way many people like, is because, like a parent he makes ways so you won't suffer but he doesn't physically intervene to prevent it. It's about your relationship with god rather than (in my view) god's relationship with you. It's what you put into learning about god and the nature of suffering in comparison (rather than contrast) to the nature of living.



As for depression, I have suffered from clinical depression. This is just my personal opinion based on experience. Learning about god and spirituality does help in general for people who believe in god.

It has helped millions. However, actual depression needs to be treated by a professional. I know god is said to be "a professional" but in order to think clearly in a general sense, I think addressing the depression would be the first start. If god is making you confused rather than helping you out of depression, maybe relax from thinking of god right now and focus on your mental well-being.



This is just my opinion. With god, I don't think a loving-god would want his children to suffer. Then, depending on if you are christian minded-it wasn't his choice but in some denominations, ours. So, it depends on how you see it rather than what you hear or read.

So why aren't we all born in heaven where we don't have to worry about suffering then? If God truly doesn't want us to suffer, then why have us born here on Earth where there is much suffering?

Basically when we question it we're in a place between Heaven and Hell...
[GALLERY=media, 7191][/GALLERY]
We're not here to suffer, we're here to learn to transduce negativity into positivity; to turn ego into Oneness, and yet due to ego seeming to be the more powerful, the world is getting a worse place.

Also some religions actually have to love suffering, and take pleasure in being martyrs, as they think they'll gain reward for it.

Having also suffered with suicidal depression for years, i understand how you feel....

Yet there are ways out of it, getting fit helps, changing our diet to not cause suffering; we're meant to be in bliss, yet there are that many poisons we can put into our self.

Depression can be a symptom of not heading in the right direction to begin; so by changing our life around, we can become what we wanted to be.

Within context of the question asked, and having seen Heaven in my NDE, there is a place of pure bliss; therefore it is possible for God to create a place that hasn't got suffering, yet that isn't the realm we're within...

Here is a place for those who need to learn how to be righteous, and to deal with our demons, so some of us can free ourselves by our good behavior.

There is absolutely no reason for this at all. As long as you are innocent and aren't harming and tormenting other people, then there is no reason for the purpose you just described. There is no reason to have any negativity and suffer like this as long as you are someone innocent not harming and tormenting others. I am such an innocent person. Therefore, there was every reason for me to be born in the eternal blissful afterlife and to live there for all eternity where I don't have to suffer and can live forever happy as this is the only thing that brings joy and meaning to my life. Depression has taken all the joy and meaning in my life away from me.

"Everything" is not an answer that satisfies my question. Please qualify at least one aspect of everything.

I already just explained it to you. I have suffered from depression and that has taken my life away from me.

 

[Demonslayer]

The bigger question for me is, why do some people have to suffer so much more than others?

I can accept some answers for why a God would allow suffering. What I can't accept is that one the one hand you have Paris Hilton, and on the other hand you have Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus.

 

[Skwim]

As I see the Christian god's purpose in creating suffering beings, it's entertainment. Being omniscient, god certainly knew before he created humans that we would be living lives of misery and futility, so why concoct such creatures? If it wasn't for his pleasure---would he create anything for his displeasure?---why bother? But he did bother. So, it obviously pleases god to see us struggle through life. Considering the truth of it all my question is, why is it people find it fitting to praise and venerate him?


.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So why aren't we all born in heaven where we don't have to worry about suffering then? If God truly doesn't want us to suffer, then why have us born here on Earth where there is much suffering?

What is your idea of god, though?

God, to me, is life. So, suffering comes will the ballgame. In your OP, it says some people learn from suffering and that is how I see it. Though I have suffered so far my whole life, and because of that, I can reflect (Well, I couldn't when I was depressed) on what I have now. I rather not having suffering just to learn from it.

If you're talking about the Christian god, what I read is that we choose to reject god. So, it's not god's fault but our ancestors. Some Christians say we choose to come here from heaven so we can experience things like suffering on order to be close to him.

How do you see god? Maybe your vision of god is what's making you question? If you change your perception of god, maybe you will have better answers? That is, of course, what religion you would like to follow or follow.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I already just explained it to you. I have suffered from depression and that has taken my life away from me.

I really don't want to seem harsh, but your life is what it is, only the concept of what your life should be has been taken away and I do not see that as a reason for suffering to be wrong. We live in a universe where we sense things based on duality. We perceive hot because of cold etc. To remove suffering would mean to remove joy. That you may not enjoy suffering or feel a sense of loss due to suffering does not make it wrong only that you do not like it.

 

[George-ananda]

The Problem of Evil question once again.


I think to understand the answer to the 'Problem of Evil' we need to start thinking in more eastern ways.

1) That we live for eons in a soul developing process; not one body's duration. In that perspective any suffering in one life is short and temporary in this grander view. And even an unfortunate life and death has lessons for that soul and for those seeing and interacting with the unfortunate life.

2) That such things are not as random as they appear. There is chain of cause and effect through time we can not see.

3) That those currently living an unfortunate life will have victory 'enlightenment' at the end of the challenges.

4) That it is God at the core of everything and it is He who experiences the temporary good and bad fortunes. It is ultimately not Him imposing it on other separate beings. It is His play/drama where He separates Himself from Himself and returns Himself to Himself but this play ends with a happy ending for all. In any great play/drama there is always drama/suffering in the middle.


I see the universe as a divine play/drama of Brahman. It is a creative emanation of Brahman. He separates Himself from Himself in Act I. He struggles to find His Oneness again in Act II. He returns Himself to Himself in Act III (a happy ending).

Why? Why do people create art for no practical purpose? To experience the emotion from the act and the appreciation of experiencing finitely.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I ask this every time some one posts this idea, what is wrong with suffering? I'm still waiting for a coherent answer.

What's wrong with suffering is that it's unpleasant, by definition. Is that coherent enough for you?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But if there is an eternal blissful afterlife, then why aren't we all born up there where we can live forever happy and not have any suffering and misery in our lives?

It's a valid question and I have never seen a convincing answer to it.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I really don't want to seem harsh, but your life is what it is, only the concept of what your life should be has been taken away and I do not see that as a reason for suffering to be wrong. We live in a universe where we sense things based on duality. We perceive hot because of cold etc. To remove suffering would mean to remove joy. That you may not enjoy suffering or feel a sense of loss due to suffering does not make it wrong only that you do not like it.

You're right. It just makes it wrong to me (and others like me). But some people value suffering and it's not wrong to them. Also, I think you are wrong there. If I were to live an eternal blissful afterlife of no suffering, then I would have all the joy in the world.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

What's wrong with suffering is that it's unpleasant, by definition. Is that coherent enough for you?

Why is unpleasantness wrong?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Why is unpleasantness wrong?

Drop a brick on your foot and it will quickly become apparent.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Drop a brick on your foot and it will quickly become apparent.

It's unpleasant, not wrong. I'm assuming that the working definition for wrong here is not morally good or correct.

 

[viole]

I am asking this question if there really is an eternal blissful afterlife. I personally am agnostic and don't know if there is a God and an afterlife. But if there is an eternal blissful afterlife, then why aren't we all born up there where we can live forever happy and not have any suffering and misery in our lives?

Some people value suffering. But others do not and are completely miserable. They resort to suicide. There is no reason for such people to be here and suffer like that. There is everything wrong with suffering. I have struggled with depression and my life has lost all joy and meaning. You don't realize just how much my life has been taken away from me.

Some people would say that we are here to learn and grow and that suffering is for our personal learning and development. If this is so, then that is no God at all. That is no loving caring God at all. You don't realize the torment that others go through. Many have lost all joy and meaning in their lives and resort to suicide.

There is no reason for this. There is no reason for innocent people to suffer like this. They are not evil people out harming and tormenting others, so there is no need for them to be here and suffer. They should of been born in heaven (the eternal blissful afterlife) and just stayed there for all eternity where they can be forever happy and never have to be suicidal and miserable.

The only reason why I think we are here and suffer is because this universe came about through random chance and that what happens to us in life just simply happens and nothing more. That there is no grand reason for any of it.

The whole theory of us being here to learn from our suffering falls apart when we consider little kids who horribly die of cancer at a very young age. What are they supposed to learn? They get a free ticket to Heaven,..and? All that suffering has been obviously useless, and could have been skipped entirely.

You will never get a rational answer to your questions from religious people. Just a bunch of complicated rationalizations that can be massively simplified by just letting the basic assumption fall. In the same way most scientific revolutions have shown a much simpler reality when they let a basic assumption fall.

Ciao

- viole