Why arming everyone with guns is not a good Idea.

[Thief]

And you think your brother would be alive today if he only had a gun? Think this through maybe a bit more thoroughly, especially in terms of who really has the advantage in most cases in these situations. Only a relatively small percentage of cases puts the victim having the advantage over the murderer.

hmmmm.....small percentage gain the upper hand over the bad guy....

did they have a gun?

and the larger percentage failed to see the scenario soon enough?

 

[First Baseman]

Well, now we have such talented artists as Snoop Dogg and Jay Z scoring the movies.

 

[Thief]

didn't see that coming.....

 

[First Baseman]

didn't see that coming.....

Yeah, I'm kind of weird like that. You'll get used to it, then miss it when they ban me.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I think having the bad guy pointing a gun in my face would make me feel sick
and watching what he does to family and home when he has the upper hand would really make me sick

a watchful eye and a gun in the house might keep me from feeling sick
in fact....it might keep me from dying.

You said you were, what? 68 or something?

Home many times have you had "the bad guy" point a gun in your face in those 68 years?

A gun in the house would only increase the likelihood of a gun-related tragedy occurring in your house.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

All in the same post. Fascinating.

One comment was made after the other.

You were the one who opened the floodgate. Maybe brush up on formal logic too?

 

[Thief]

You said you were, what? 68 or something?

Home many times have you had "the bad guy" point a gun in your face in those 68 years?

A gun in the house would only increase the likelihood of a gun-related tragedy occurring in your house.

anybody got stats on gun pointing?

seems to me it happens a lot.
maybe we should make a greater effort to 'point' back

 

[Revoltingest]

anybody got stats on gun pointing?
seems to me it happens a lot.
maybe we should make a greater effort to 'point' back

I've posted Gary Kleck's work on this.
Guns are used in self-defense in the US many more times than the number of deaths.
Most cases result in no shots being fired.
But every time I present his work & balance it with that of his critics, it's all rejected out of hand.

 

[Thief]

I've posted Gary Kleck's work on this.
Guns are used in self-defense in the US many more times than the number of deaths.
Most cases result in no shots being fired.
But every time I present his work & balance it with that of his critics, it's all rejected out of hand.

each to his podium....

so far so good, I have not suffered.
but my brother has lost a neighbor
my son lost one of his friends
back in high school a class mate was killed

but putting away the guns won't make it stop

Cain killed Abel.....with a rock

 

[esmith]

I've posted Gary Kleck's work on this.
Guns are used in self-defense in the US many more times than the number of deaths.
Most cases result in no shots being fired.
But every time I present his work & balance it with that of his critics, it's all rejected out of hand.

So for many on the forum we could take the words from Colonel Jessep (Jack Nicholson "You Can't Handle The Truth" in the movie "A Few Good Men" and combine it with the title of an article “Don’t Confuse Me With Facts!” by Roy S. Durstine to be

"I can't handle the truth my mind is made up don't confuse me with facts"

 

[Revoltingest]

So for many on the forum we could take the words from Colonel Jessep (Jack Nicholson "You Can't Handle The Truth" in the movie "A Few Good Men" and combine it with the title of an article “Don’t Confuse Me With Facts!” by Roy S. Durstine to be

"I can't handle the truth my mind is made up don't confuse me with facts"

I don't even claim "the truth".
I point out the large potential for inaccuracy in the results.
But to anti-gunners, anything which counters their arguments is from a tainted source.....in my experience.

 

[metis]

so you have lights to help the bad guy find his way around your house?
atta boy

now you're safe

LOL! Hate to break the news to ya but the lights are on the outside of my house, which was actually made quite clear in my post if you'd reread it. According to the police I brought in, that was the #1 best way to keep intruders away because they simply don't want to be seen. #2 were security doors, and #3 were dogs according to them. Alarm systems I believe were #4, but I'm not as certain about that.

According to all of the officers I had brought in, anyone who attempts to confront a burglar in their home is being foolish and reckless because more innocent people are killed that way than are burglars. The latter has the edge because he knows where you're coming from but you cannot be certain where he actually is without turning the lights on and exposing yourself.

 

[metis]

OK-- reality:

Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have been in decline for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%. According to a 2011 report from the Australian government, "...the number of victims of homicide has been in decline since 1996". There were 354 victims in 1996, but only 260 victims in 2010, a decrease of 27 percent. Of those 260 victims however, only 36 were homicides involving a firearm. Also, "The proportion of homicide victims killed by offenders using firearms in 2009–10 represented a decrease of 18 percentage points from the peak of 31 percent in 1995–96 (the year in which the Port Arthur massacre occurred with the death of 35 people, which subsequently led to the introduction of stringent firearms legislation).". In 2014, only 35 people were victims of firearms homicide (1 in 685000 population), compared to 98 people in 1996 (1 in 186000 population). A 3.7 fold decrease in firearm homicide rates since controls were introduced.

Suicide deaths using firearms more than halved over the ten years, from 389 deaths in 1995, to 147 deaths in 2005. to 7% of all suicides in 2005.

The number of guns stolen has fallen from an average 4,195 per year from 1994 to 2000 to 1,526 in 2006–2007. Long guns are more often stolen opportunistically in home burglaries, but few homes have handguns and a substantial proportion of stolen handguns are taken from security firms and other businesses; only a tiny proportion, 0.06% of licensed firearms, are stolen in a given year. Only a small proportion of those firearms are recovered. Approximately 3% of these stolen weapons are later connected to an actual crime or found in the possession of a person charged with a serious offence ...

In 1997, the Prime Minister appointed the Australian Institute of Criminology to monitor the effects of the gun buyback. The institute has published a number of papers reporting trends and statistics around gun ownership and gun crime.

Many studies have followed, providing varying results stemming from different methodologies and areas of focus. However, Harvard University summarized the research in 2011 and concluded, “it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future evidence of a beneficial effect.”... -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

Ya, I'll take the Aussie government's findings backed by Harvard University.

 

[roger1440]

 

[Thief]

LOL! Hate to break the news to ya but the lights are on the outside of my house, which was actually made quite clear in my post if you'd reread it. According to the police I brought in, that was the #1 best way to keep intruders away because they simply don't want to be seen. #2 were security doors, and #3 were dogs according to them. Alarm systems I believe were #4, but I'm not as certain about that.

According to all of the officers I had brought in, anyone who attempts to confront a burglar in their home is being foolish and reckless because more innocent people are killed that way than are burglars. The latter has the edge because he knows where you're coming from but you cannot be certain where he actually is without turning the lights on and exposing yourself.

more innocent are killed than burglars?

here in this town a story of home invasion....
some guy just opened his front door like most people do.....
the bad guy at the door put a gun in his face.

they moved to the kitchen....a struggle opened and the home owner was shot in the leg.

the homeowner's girl friend appeared from out of nowhere and proceded to clobber the bad guy with a baseball bat
all the way out the front picture window

everyone lived.

HEY!..... that's it!
baseball bats for everyone!

 

[metis]

more innocent are killed than burglars?

here in this town a story of home invasion....
some guy just opened his front door like most people do.....
the bad guy at the door put a gun in his face.

they moved to the kitchen....a struggle opened and the home owner was shot in the leg.

the homeowner's girl friend appeared from out of nowhere and proceded to clubber the bad guy with a baseball bat
all the way out the front picture window

everyone lived.

HEY!..... that's it!
baseball bats for everyone!

Hey if you want to go with your stories, go for it, but I certainly hope for the sake of others that you live alone.

One final note on this: one of my cousins was a Detroit police officer who early in his career took his gun to most locations even when off duty. However, after seeing what he saw all too many times over the years, he changed that so when he came home from work he'd take his bullets out, put them in his safe, and then take his gun and keep it in a lock-box chained to a heavy bookcase in his basement. And he lived in Detroit, btw, so why do you think he began to do this?

'Nuff said and I'm outta here on this thread.

 

[Revoltingest]

According to all of the officers I had brought in, anyone who attempts to confront a burglar in their home is being foolish and reckless because more innocent people are killed that way than are burglars. The latter has the edge because he knows where you're coming from but you cannot be certain where he actually is without turning the lights on and exposing yourself.

And that might be the best advice for you.
But some of us are more capable, so cops give us different advice.
As Dirty Harry said....
A man's got to know his limitations.

 

[Thief]

OK-- reality:

Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have been in decline for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%. According to a 2011 report from the Australian government, "...the number of victims of homicide has been in decline since 1996". There were 354 victims in 1996, but only 260 victims in 2010, a decrease of 27 percent. Of those 260 victims however, only 36 were homicides involving a firearm. Also, "The proportion of homicide victims killed by offenders using firearms in 2009–10 represented a decrease of 18 percentage points from the peak of 31 percent in 1995–96 (the year in which the Port Arthur massacre occurred with the death of 35 people, which subsequently led to the introduction of stringent firearms legislation).". In 2014, only 35 people were victims of firearms homicide (1 in 685000 population), compared to 98 people in 1996 (1 in 186000 population). A 3.7 fold decrease in firearm homicide rates since controls were introduced.

Suicide deaths using firearms more than halved over the ten years, from 389 deaths in 1995, to 147 deaths in 2005. to 7% of all suicides in 2005.

The number of guns stolen has fallen from an average 4,195 per year from 1994 to 2000 to 1,526 in 2006–2007. Long guns are more often stolen opportunistically in home burglaries, but few homes have handguns and a substantial proportion of stolen handguns are taken from security firms and other businesses; only a tiny proportion, 0.06% of licensed firearms, are stolen in a given year. Only a small proportion of those firearms are recovered. Approximately 3% of these stolen weapons are later connected to an actual crime or found in the possession of a person charged with a serious offence ...

In 1997, the Prime Minister appointed the Australian Institute of Criminology to monitor the effects of the gun buyback. The institute has published a number of papers reporting trends and statistics around gun ownership and gun crime.

Many studies have followed, providing varying results stemming from different methodologies and areas of focus. However, Harvard University summarized the research in 2011 and concluded, “it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future evidence of a beneficial effect.”... -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

Ya, I'll take the Aussie government's findings backed by Harvard University.

all related to the lack of guns
about the crime not related to guns?

Try Japan.....

here in the States ....Texas has deemed it appropriate for carry....
the law was spearheaded by a women who watched her father and mother die in a random restaurant shooting
several other people died as well.

no one returned fire.
some people might have been spared if someone had done so

 

[Thief]

Hey if you want to go with your stories, go for them, but I certainly hope you live alone.

'Nuff said.

nuff said?....not yet.

I'm talking real life stories

then there's he guy getting shot in his front yard....my small town
maybe he got caught by surprise....
but he did not return fire
no gun

too bad

 

[First Baseman]

And that might be the best advice for you.
But some of us are more capable, so cops give us different advice.
As Dirty Harry said....
A man's got to know his limitations.

If you were a woman I think I would love you!