waitasec
Veteran Member
the idea of dying in the name of "a god" is awfully suspect to me...
lets just call it out for what it is....
a battle cry. 'if you turn your back on our mission...for shame.'
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why ask, aren't you afraid for your
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
the idea of dying in the name of "a god" is awfully suspect to me...
lets just call it out for what it is....
a battle cry. 'if you turn your back on our mission...for shame.'
Alceste
Vagabond
Not to mention it gives restless young men an excuse to spend their lives cheaply.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
My point is that the Christian God offers what is by the far the best deal of any "diety" in existence. You have to admit that IF it's true, then there isn no close second to it. We're talking about finding forgiveness, knowing the perfect love of God, experiencing God's provision in this life, and recieving the promise of life after death in a place like this:
Context
<<Revelation 21>>
New American Standard BibleThe New Heaven and Earth
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
5And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7“He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
9Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
The New Jerusalem
10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. 12It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall. 16The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal. 17And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements. 18The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; 20the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst. 21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. 22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Now compare this to the bill of goods that Alceste's gods are selling. Are you really going to tell me that 98% of people here wouldn't jump at the chance to make this deal if they could somehow be convinced that it was true? As far as people praying for me, I always appreciate it when people, who are motivated by a sincere desire to bless my life, try to help even if I feel like their methods are useless. Notice that the only thing people have suggested I need prayer for is being "liberated" from my views about Jesus. That being the case, I can't help but feel their motivations stem from bitterness they have toward Christianity more than anything else.
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-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
There was once man who was in the business of selling feces. In order to make his foul smelling product a little more appealing he decided to put it in a skillfully embroidered linen sack. Then, he planted the sweetest smelling flowers he could find all around where he did buisness. Finally, he hired some beautiful dancing girls to capture the eye of prospective buyers. Despite all his efforts however, nothing could change the fact that at the end of the day it was still just a bag of ****. Using words and phrases like "liberate" "happiness" and "freeing" doesn't change the fact that this is a message of despair. I assume you would respond by saying that it's better to live in despair and be connected with reality than to believe a delusion. Which leads us back to the real question: what is the truth?
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Alceste
Vagabond
Lol - that's so hilarious, because I thought you were talking about Christianity right up until "words and phrases like "liberate" "happiness" and "freeing", when I realized you were actually talking about my post.
Which goes to show you really don't get it. To think that a life without faith in immortality must be "despairing" is an incredibly bleak outlook on life, from my POV. What is it about the miracle of physical life that you find so dreary and unpalatable that you want to put off the bulk of your allotment of bliss and delight until after you die? Why not start living in ecstasy right now, today? This moment, right now, is the only moment you will ever experience. Why not make the most of it?
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
Please tell me about the ecstasy that you're refering to that Christians are supposedly missing out on? Is this really about having sex the way you want it? Be honest, is that the main reason you bailed on Jesus?
Alceste
Vagabond
It's a state of amazement, wonder and awe at the miracle of being alive, in this jaw droppingly beautiful world, and of profound peace and thankfulness for the chance to experience anything at all.
My church, being very committed to the philosophy of Jesus, didn't dwell on sexual immorality. My family stopped going to church because my mother felt closer to God in nature than she did in church. I stopped calling myself a Christian after realizing most Christians don't give a fiddler's fart about loving their neighbor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, not passing judgment on others, renouncing greed, loving with kindness and compassion, etc. They just want to stick a band-aid over their fear of death.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
I am afraid it seems you don't know anything about what other Gods offer. Your God's offer is in fact, rather poor, given the entire field.
The offer of the Aesir is far superior.
But we are invite-only.
However, to the point: the fact you wish to interfere in someone else's conclusion via black magic is still wrong, no matter how you think you know better where their soul or mind should go. Especially given that you take your expectations from Revelation of all things, which probably should never have been canon. And besides, as I am speaking of in another thread, your afterlife still depends on you receiving a reward while countless more suffer eternal torture. The dehumanizing price for your comfort is far too morally high for Right Good men to accept.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
hmmm...
no well i would respond by saying this
psalm 118:5
In my anguish I cried to the LORD, and he answered by setting me free.
romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
as i was looking for this "freedom" outside of myself...it wasn't there.
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Alceste
Vagabond
Damn, we agree again??? This is like twice in the same week.
What's going on!!! Have you been taking magic mushrooms or something?
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
My gods would probably let him lead himself into his own folly, and after the purging fires of hell, he would come out wiser from it. But to liberate? Satan would have to let him explore himself before he could admit what he is (an animal as opposed to a being with a special place in the cosmos).
I don't think anything we say can convince him, it is only something that the individual can come to themselves. You can't talk them out of a religion.
I'm pretty sure she means you should kill yourself (in a joking way) so that you can just get over with this wicked and sin-filled life of pain and despair.
That's the Gnostic view of Jesus. Jesus used Judas to orchestrate his death. To release him from the flesh. So he could return to the spiritual realm. Not to pay for anyone's sins but to be released from the imperfect nature of this world.
This according to the gospel of Judas. Makes Jesus and his followers sound like a death cult.
This resurrection idea, they want to bring the flesh along with them. They understood Jesus' teachings in a way that would allow them to hold onto/remain attached to the flesh/physical identity.
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