Why Atheists Don’t Really Exist

[mikkel_the_dane]

I become stressed when watching scary films, even though I know they are not real. I suspect this is similar and does not prove that there are no atheists.

Of course, there are atheists. And further there are more to religion than atheism and theism.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Of course, there are atheists. And further there are more to religion than atheism and theism.

...and there is more to religion than belief or personal belief. 'Religion' used to refer to how often you went to church, but now it is something else that includes lots of ways of life. Sometimes belief is held by the community rather than by individuals. Sometimes religion is about something other than the afterlife, too. A religion is how people live regularly: the things they do, the way of life that they accept. It is a label that outsiders, such as myself, use to refer to people who live particular ways and do things that to me seem odd. Very often an entire religion is known only by its peculiar garb or some strange thing that it does or has. The religion is not the label, but the label is what we use. We need words for things, is what it comes down to. 'People who bow to stone statues' is a little too long. So is 'People who rub the fat tummy of a stone statue' or 'People who wear those little beanies'. Maybe that would work in Sanskrit, but in English its unwieldy. We have to use coined names or borrowed words.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...and there is more to religion than belief or personal belief. 'Religion' used to refer to how often you went to church, but now it is something else that includes lots of ways of life. Sometimes belief is held by the community rather than by individuals. Sometimes religion is about something other than the afterlife, too. A religion is how people live regularly: the things they do, the way of life that they accept. It is a label that outsiders, such as myself, use to refer to people who live particular ways and do things that to me seem odd. Very often an entire religion is known only by its peculiar garb or some strange thing that it does or has. The religion is not the label, but the label is what we use. We need words for things, is what it comes down to. 'People who bow to stone statues' is a little too long. So is 'People who rub the fat tummy of a stone statue' or 'People who wear those little beanies'. Maybe that would work in Sanskrit, but in English its unwieldy. We have to use coined names or borrowed words.

Yeah, and if you read this, Religion | Definition, Types, Beliefs, Symbols, Examples, Importance, & Facts it is even more complex.

 

[Valjean]

The link worked for me and it also has a link to the article by Hutson that he was talking about. Here is Hutson's article:

The Science of Superstition

No one is immune to magical thinking.

www.theatlantic.com

Hutson found that even scientists are not immune from "magical thinking" if one forced them to answer with a time constraint. That is not much of a find. When pushed to answer quickly people will give inaccurate answers at times. Does that mean that they are not atheists because the more animal part of our brains are not totally rational? I do not think so.

Thanks. Interesting article.


OK, I think follow now.
I wouldn't say atheists don't exist, but that they have the same neuroanatomy as believers and magical thinkers.
We all have basal ganglia and limbic systems, with quick response short cuts, on speed dial. We're apophenic, perceiving patterns, faces, intentions and relationships where none exist. We're threat sensitive. These are limbic responses, and we're all wired for them.

Intellectual skills, like reason, logic and analytical thinking are neocortical. They're learned, slow, deliberate and, till relatively recently, pretty useless from a survival standpoint.
Reasoned conclusions like atheism can't override our deep seated emotional responses. I may know intellectually that I'm securely roped to a tree while looking over a cliff, but I still get butterflies in my stomach.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Thanks. Interesting article.


OK, I think follow now.
I wouldn't say atheists don't exist, but that they have the same neuroanatomy as believers and magical thinkers.
We all have basal ganglia and limbic systems, with quick response short cuts, on speed dial. We're apophenic, perceiving patterns, faces, intentions and relationships where none exist. We're threat sensitive. These are limbic responses, and we're all wired for them.

Intellectual skills, like reason, logic and analytical thinking are neocortical. They're learned, slow, deliberate and, till relatively recently, pretty useless from a survival standpoint.
Reasoned conclusions like atheism can't override our deep seated emotional responses. I may know intellectually that I'm securely roped to a tree while looking over a cliff, but I still get butterflies in my stomach.

I still wonder how you do all the subjective behaviors you do, when it comes to morality and what matters to you.

 

[Valjean]

...and there is more to religion than belief or personal belief. 'Religion' used to refer to how often you went to church, but now it is something else that includes lots of ways of life. Sometimes belief is held by the community rather than by individuals. Sometimes religion is about something other than the afterlife, too. A religion is how people live regularly: the things they do, the way of life that they accept. It is a label that outsiders, such as myself, use to refer to people who live particular ways and do things that to me seem odd. Very often an entire religion is known only by its peculiar garb or some strange thing that it does or has. The religion is not the label, but the label is what we use. We need words for things, is what it comes down to. 'People who bow to stone statues' is a little too long. So is 'People who rub the fat tummy of a stone statue' or 'People who wear those little beanies'. Maybe that would work in Sanskrit, but in English its unwieldy. We have to use coined names or borrowed words.

How would you distinguish it from culture, in the anthropological sense?

 

[Valjean]

I still wonder how you do all the subjective behaviors you do, when it comes to morality and what matters to you.

What subjective behaviors are you referring to? [What is a "subjective behavior?"]

Have you been spying on me? <<tapes over camera on monitor screen>>

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What subjective behaviors are you referring to? [What is a "subjective behavior?"]

Have you been spying on me? <<tapes over camera on monitor screen>>

In end any sign you use that has no objective referent. E.g.

 

[dybmh]

Researchgate is a social networking site.

From Wikipedia;
'ResearchGate has been criticized for failing to provide safeguards against "the dark side of academic writing", including such phenomena as fake publishers, "ghost journals", publishers with "predatory" publication fees, and fake impact ratings.[39] It has also been criticized for copyright infringement of published works.[40][9][41]'

Source: ResearchGate - Wikipedia

What i make of that is that there is no guarantee it is a peer reviewed scientific paper just cause it appeared on researchgate.

In my opinion.

Actually, reasearchgate was the source that offered the paper for free reading. Here's a link to a publisher you have used in the past, but all one gets is the abstract.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10508619.2013.771991

Here's University of Helsinki

Atheists become emotionally aroused when daring God to do terrible things

researchportal.helsinki.fi

Apa Psych-net

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

You could also look at the people who wrote it, or even actually read the paper. It appears to be real reputable research. But, they only interviewed something like 20 people? I didn't read the method carefully, but, once I saw the number of subjects, I moved on. It's not really that big of a deal.

 

[icehorse]

I become stressed when watching scary films, even though I know they are not real. I suspect this is similar and does not prove that there are no atheists.

Interesting - that brings to mind the fact that we are endowed / cursed to have "mirror neurons".

E.g., a group of people watching football at the pub, and everyone groans when they see a particularly vicious tackle.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Interesting - that brings to mind the fact that we are endowed / cursed to have "mirror neurons".

E.g., a group of people watching football at the pub, and everyone groans when they see a particularly vicious tackle.

Yes, although I'd like to point out that not everyone's mirror neurons are properly connected. Some folk do not empathize, so this explanation may not be clear to all.

 

[danieldemol]

Actually, reasearchgate was the source that offered the paper for free reading. Here's a link to a publisher you have used in the past, but all one gets is the abstract.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10508619.2013.771991

Here's University of Helsinki

Atheists become emotionally aroused when daring God to do terrible things

researchportal.helsinki.fi

Apa Psych-net

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

You could also look at the people who wrote it, or even actually read the paper. It appears to be real reputable research. But, they only interviewed something like 20 people? I didn't read the method carefully, but, once I saw the number of subjects, I moved on. It's not really that big of a deal.

Fair enough, I read through it a bit last night, and looked at the questions they asked, such as;
"I dare God to make someone rape my friend"

Perhaps the stress response was triggered by the subject? I find the thought of my friends being raped to be stressful personally so maybe God had nothing to do with it and the subject matter was the stressor.

From the article;
'The difference in SC increase between reading God statements and offensive statements was
not significant either among atheists or religious people (both ps>.39).'

So if I'm understanding correctly reading offensive statements caused no significant difference in stress levels for atheists than reading offensive God statements.

In my opinion.

 

[paarsurrey]

That doesn't make sense. Who was this Hutson? (link doesn't load) What were they investigating? What was their sample demographic and methodology?

A caring, lawgiving, judgemental god, concerned with human affairs, is an Abrahamic thing, and these results don't reflect any thinking I'm aware of.

Fix link, please.

What "methodology" the non-believeing Atheism people do adopt for research, please ?

Regards

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Smh

 

[Valjean]

What "methodology" the non-believeing Atheism people do adopt for research, please ?

Regards

Logic and reason.
Atheists also largely accept the findings of science, which has its own methodology.

 

[syo]

Atheists+ Abrahamics= eternal romance

 

[paarsurrey]

by Logic and reason.
Atheists also largely accept the findings of science, which has its own methodology.

Science does have a Methodology, but Atheism people don't have any Methodology, please, right?

Regards

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

View attachment 74641​

But for Hutson and others who are perplexed at the dogged persistence of “magical thinking,” it gets worse. Hutson cites studies that show the persistent belief in God is not merely understood as some distant Deistic First Cause but, rather, of a God who cares, a God who judges and a God who might punish. Deep in our bones we are intrinsically theistic. He writes, “Even atheists seem to fear a higher power. A study published last year found that self-identified nonbelievers began to sweat when reading aloud sentences asking God to do terrible things (‘I dare God to make my parents drown’). Not only that, they stressed out just as much as believers did.”
Why Atheists Don’t Really Exist

It seems it is hard to escape the primal feeling that there is something out there we'd rather not **** off.

You might take about 5 years and read all of the posts by atheists in these forums. Near as I can tell, they (and I) have been writing pretty much without fear for years, all the while claiming that we really don't believe in the existence of deities.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'd guess that it's hard for humans to fight against a lifetime of religious propaganda.

Speaking only for myself -- not a bit.

 

[Quagmire]

I agree that there's no empirical evidence that atheists are real.

You just have to accept their existence as a matter faith.