Why Believe in Hell?

[Sunstone]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

 

[chinu]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

In few words, troubled life is hell, Either this trouble may occur on this earth, or in any subtle region.. Its hell.

Today the people who are leading a joyful life on this earth can be in troubled circumstances tomorrow, as the circumstances for man can never stay permanent on this earth, this earth can also be defined as hell.

Similarly.. some souls who are leading a joyful time in subtle regions now, can be in troubled circumstances later, as this joyful time can also never stay permanent for those souls there, these subtle regions can also be said as hell.

Now the question arise, Which place is the permanent place of joy ?
The answer is heaven/god.

God created this whole universe for us to feel the pain of segregation, As there is no other place of permanent joy/happiness other than god/heaven. Thus everyplace other than god/heaven is hell.

 

[sandandfoam]

I think that a fear of what one is capable of is one reason to believe in hell. I think a longing for justice when wronged by those who appear to get away with it is another.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I've always felt that a God who would create an eternal hell is a god not worth worshiping, even if existent.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

would someone who detests God enjoy spending eternity with Him? Seems like Hell to me

 

[SageTree]

The hells that we put ourselves into with unskillfullness seems tangible and real.

But eternal hell.... ???

:no

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It's been my observation that Hell exists as a way to vicariously hope/wish for the torture of others, for a variety of reasons, and to place it in such a location that you cannot be morally held accountable for such feelings; because God generally cannot be considered [by those who believe in Hell] to be held accountable for anything bad. So, it removes themselves from the reprehensibility of the equation by dumping it in the lap of someone you cannot dare criticize. But they can still savor the thought and appear pious to themselves.

 

[fantome profane]

I think people have an innate sense of justice. But we observe people not being punished for evil, and even being rewarded. This creates a conflict in us. One way to resolve this conflict is to create a story about retribution after death.

But there is no valid independent reason for believing this.

 

[rusra02]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

The origins of belief in hellfire are pagan, and adopted by an apostate church after the death of the apostles. The words rendered "hell" in some Bibles refers to the abode of the dead, or the grave (hades and sheol.) The Bible does not teach a literal hellfire of torment. "there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She'ol (hell, douay), the place to which you are going." "The dead are conscious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:10,5) So I believe you have that right.

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[arthra]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

Hell is being distant or remote from God... so it is more of a spiritual condition in my belief than something someone from outside the person can say yes on "independent grounds" this person is indeed in a hell...and you'll probably only find that in literature as in Dante's Inferno..

It would have to be on the testimony of someone saying yes I'm experiencing this hell.

 

[Astravalon]

would someone who detests God enjoy spending eternity with Him? Seems like Hell to me

This reminds me ... I could be wrong, but I think it's the Orthodox Christians who believe that heaven and hell are the same place, which is in God's presence. Those who love God are, of course, having the time of their lives. Those who don't are, naturally, miserable. Where I would part ways with that is that I don't believe those who are miserable necessarily remain that way forever. Sooner or later they 'get it' and all will be well.

I think people have an innate sense of justice. But we observe people not being punished for evil, and even being rewarded. This creates a conflict in us. One way to resolve this conflict is to create a story about retribution after death.

But there is no valid independent reason for believing this.

I agree. I think the psychology behind that is similar even with less hellish approaches to Divine justice, such as with reincarnation.

Beliefs in such things seem to exist more for the benefit of those nursing those beliefs than anything else, as such post-mortem drama is really rather impractical. In my opinion, God is far too efficient to require the inflicting of a hundred future lives or an eternity in hell to fix what's supposedly broke in someone.


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[BruceDLimber]

The Baha'i scriptures state the same definitions for Heaven and hell as do other religions: spiritual nearness to and remoteness from God. So multiple religions clearly agree about this.

And given that both can obviously exist, there's no real ground for objection.

Please note that it's a mistake, though, to term hell "eternal": these scriptures also state it is no such thing (quote upon request)!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Sir Doom]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

I believe that the afterlife will be exactly what each of us expects it to be. If your afterlife concept contains a Hell, then when you die, you'll have a chance to go there. Usually people who believe in Hell assign some type of moral code to the process of selection, and indeed flagrantly disregard these guidelines themselves as if they only apply to others. I assume these people will be in for a rude awakening when they arrive in their chosen afterlife. I can't be sure, naturally.

Likewise, since my own personal beliefs don't require any sort of eternal punishment for anyone, I have 0% chance to end up there.

Then there are the depraved. I try not imagine too many specifics when it comes to what a serial killer would see as 'heaven', but I guess it would look an awful lot like the traditional Hell except that they would be the tormentors instead of the tormented. Not something I really like to think about too much, but its an unfortunate concession I feel bound to make.

I read a story once that had Paladins (holy knights) going to Hell when they died not as a punishment but as a reward. They were allowed to continue their endless war against the demons of Hell just as they did in life. This is another way to look at Hell in more of a neutral light I suppose. Sort of reminds me of Valhalla (although not exactly).

 

[Bob Dixon]

The Baha'i scriptures state the same definitions for Heaven and hell as do other religions: spiritual nearness to and remoteness from God. So multiple religions clearly agree about this.

And given that both can obviously exist, there's to real ground for objection.

Please note that it's a mistake, though, to term hell "eternal": these scriptures also state it is no such thing (quote upon request)!

Peace,

Bruce

I'm requesting a quote! Post!
Are there any justifications for the temporariness of Hell that reference other religious texts (as the Baha'is often do), too?

 

[BruceDLimber]

[quote=Bob Dixon;2980280]Are there any justifications for the temporariness of Hell that reference other religious texts?[/quote]

Not to my knowledge, though there may indeed be such.

In any case, for us the Baha'i scriptures suffice nicely!

The quote is below.

Peace,

Bruce
- - - - -
"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God.... Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications.

"Both before and after putting off this material form, there is progress in perfection, but not in state.... There is no other being higher than a perfect man. But man when he has reached this state can still make progress in perfections but not in state, because there is no state higher than that of a perfect man to which he can transfer himself. He only progresses in the state of humanity, for the human perfections are infinite. Thus however learned a man may be, we can imagine one more learned.

"Hence, as the perfections of humanity are endless, man can also make progress in perfections after leaving this world."
―Some Answered Questions, p. 274.

 

[Muffled]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

One might ask why not lie in the sun for hours without sunscreen. People might tell you that you will get sunburn but that is just words right? The problem with Hell is that you don't get to sample it before you go there as you could with sunburn so all you have is the word of God to testify of it.

God invariably speaks the truth.

It doesn't look that way to me because I have expereince with God that supports what is written.

None that I know about but those who would be independent of God are not usually saying things in support of Him.

 

[Bob Dixon]

"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God.... Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications.

"Both before and after putting off this material form, there is progress in perfection, but not in state.... There is no other being higher than a perfect man. But man when he has reached this state can still make progress in perfections but not in state, because there is no state higher than that of a perfect man to which he can transfer himself. He only progresses in the state of humanity, for the human perfections are infinite. Thus however learned a man may be, we can imagine one more learned.

"Hence, as the perfections of humanity are endless, man can also make progress in perfections after leaving this world."
―Some Answered Questions, p. 274.

Thanks, Bruce! I appreciate it.

One might ask why not lie in the sun for hours without sunscreen. People might tell you that you will get sunburn but that is just words right? The problem with Hell is that you don't get to sample it before you go there as you could with sunburn so all you have is the word of God to testify of it.

No, the problem with Hell is that there's no evidence of it in our lives, and there's no real evidence of it in the Bible, either.

 

[waitasec]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

i think another reason besides faith is to believe there is such a place for the drunk driver who 'killed your kid'
another reason is the idea of regret. living a life that is full of regret is surely deserving of hell.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Another view is C.S. Lewis' you guys might want to look into instead of getting your theology from Westborogh Baptists

but ultimately I don't have to justify hell to a bunch of heathens, God said it, I believe it, that settles it

 

[Penumbra]

Are there any reasons, other than faith in the scripture or tradition of your choice, to regard the concepts of damnation, hell, and eternal punishment as likely to be the case?

To me, the notion that some deity would create an eternal hell has no evidence in support of it beyond whatever the truth value is of scriptures or traditions. People who believe in hells ultimately do so out of unsupported faith.

So, do I have that right? Are there any independent grounds for believing in hells?

I view the belief and acceptance of hell as interesting, because it provides some insight into the character of people that believe these sorts of concepts. Maybe it provides some insight into the darker aspects of the whole human race, that such a thing can be so widely believed.

Some people can agree to some of the most malevolent things given enough social support or due to outreach to some sort of external justification, like a proposed deity. Accepting the idea of eternal suffering for any conscious being is something that I think most reasonable people on Earth would be unwilling to do (compare for instance, prisons in most developed countries vs the concept of hell, or the universal declaration of human rights against torture vs the concept of hell), but when it's proposed in a supernatural sense it seems to be more readily accepted by some people.

I assume it must be related to what allowed so many people in the world's history to support some of the wars or human rights violations that were later viewed by history as clearly wrong, yet accepted at the time by millions of people.