Why Believe Jesus Never Had Sex?

[1robin]

It's not even close to the amount of suffering caused by Christians invading South America and killing those who would not convert to Christianity.

You can't know this to begin with but I would disagree. However if Christians are harming people then I condemn their behavior as well.

It's not even close to the amount of suffering caused by Christians importing and maintaining slaves because their bible told them it was OK to own slaves.

You can't know this to begin with but I would disagree. However if Christians are harming people then I condemn their behavior as well. ​

It's not even close to the amount of suffering caused by Christians, at various stages throughout history, onto the Jewish people.

​

You can't know this to begin with but I would disagree. However if Christians are harming people then I condemn their behavior as well. ​

I could give a lot more examples, but you should get the idea.

1. You can't possibly know a single thing you claimed above.
2. Even if it was true (and I seriously doubt it) you have no way to know it.
3. Even if what you said was true, even if you could know it, it would not counter anything I have claimed.
4. I never said that promiscuity causes more evil than everything else. I just said it causes a lot of misery.

Your comments were addressed to me. Why should others have a problem with them or my rebuttals?

My response was very simple. You seem to be the only person who doesn't get what I am saying. Therefor the fault probably lies with you and not me.

Maybe later. Right now I'd rather see you try to justify your toned down comment: "Of all the moral failing that plague mankind promiscuity is one of the worst."

My comments have remained exactly the same, it is your understanding of them that has varied. So, you bring up the flood then refuse to discuss it. Are you asking me to demonstrate that promiscuity comes with significant costs? Lets start of with a list concerning the types of suffering promiscuity comes with.

Promiscuity causes the following:
1. The vastly higher spread rate of sexually transmitted diseases.
2. Adultery.
3. Divorce.
4. Sexual violence.
5. Abortion.
6. Prostitution.
7. Rape.
8. Sex trafficking of adults and minors.
9. To some extent pornography.
10 The destruction of the traditional family unit.

You realize your argument is that we must accept all those things above (any many more I didn't list), because sex outside of marriage gratifies our lusts.[/quote][/quote]

 

[ecco]

That is of no concern to many true believers. Jesus will return real soon and all will be well.

Only Jesus is not coming back to earth, not ever.

Can't Christians read?

My above comment was sarcasm. That should have been obvious even if you missed the context.

I just spent about two hours on a long post to one of my atheist friends on another forum who thinks Jesus is coming back.

Why would an atheist think Jesus is coming back.

 

[ecco]

It's not even close to the amount of suffering caused by Christians invading South America and killing those who would not convert to Christianity.

It's not even close to the amount of suffering caused by Christians importing and maintaining slaves because their bible told them it was OK to own slaves.

It's not even close to the amount of suffering caused by Christians, at various stages throughout history, onto the Jewish people.

I could give a lot more examples, but you should get the idea.

To which 1robin responded 3 times...

You can't know this to begin with but I would disagree. However if Christians are harming people then I condemn their behavior as well.

Care to explain how I can't know that South American natives suffered at the hands of the invading Christian Spanish explorers? Care to explain why you disagree?

After you respond to that one point, we can discuss how American slaves suffered and how, historically, Jewish people suffered at the hands of Christians.

 

[Trailblazer]

My above comment was sarcasm. That should have been obvious even if you missed the context.

Yes, I know that you don't believe Jesus is coming back and that you were just being sarcastic.

Why would an atheist think Jesus is coming back.

He said he really had nothing better to do but wait for Jesus but I assume he meant that facetiously. I do not think he really "believes" Jesus is coming back.

On the other hand, as an observer who is not on either side, it seems really odd that my three atheists/agnostics friends talk to so many Christians and talk so much about the Bible and Christianity... It seems odd to me that nonbelievers do that here as well. If I was a nonbeliever I would be off sunning myself on a beach somewhere.

 

[sojourner]

First off, I'd never ask anyone for "proof" of anything.



I didn't find a link in your above quoted post, so I went back to an earlier post:
Documentary hypothesis - Wikipedia
This article states: ...Torah ... is made up of sources combined over many centuries by many hands.

That is something I would agree with.


I skimmed the article but didn't see anything about four authors.

So, rather than just post a link to an article, it would be helpful to quote those portions of the article that you feel support your viewpoint ("Just saving obvious steps")

The article in whole supports the viewpoint, and goes into some depth in explanation. That’s why I posted the link, and not just a sentence from it. If you had looked more carefully, you would have seen a couple references to J, E, P, D— the four authors.

 

[1robin]

I suppose it would be like a man who desires strongly to kill people but never acts on it. He can't be labeled a murderer and punished accordingly. Secondarily, suppose you knew a man who was a bigot or chauvinist etc, but he never acted out his hate, he merely harbored it within. Isn't the mere possession of such evil inclination a sufficient cause for you to be offended/oppose.

Yes this is called thought crime. It can be illustrated in the verse:

New International Version
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now I am not saying that God condemns homosexuals who do not act out their desires. That would require more reading that I can do at the moment.

 

[1robin]

To which 1robin responded 3 times...

So what? All 3 of your claims had the same fatal flaw.

Care to explain how I can't know that South American natives suffered at the hands of the invading Christian Spanish explorers? Care to explain why you disagree?

You didn't merely claim that South American slaves suffered. You said the costs of promiscuity are not even close to the suffering of South America slaves. You made a claim to knowledge therefor it is your burden (not mine) to provide the proof.

After you respond to that one point, we can discuss how American slaves suffered and how, historically, Jewish people suffered at the hands of Christians.

You still have all your work before you. Providing proof is the burden of the one making a claim to certain knowledge. Good luck.

I edited post #521 incorrectly, can you go back and respond to the rest of it?

 

[Onyx]

I bet Jesus tagged his fair share of ***** back in the day, See the photo, who could resist? There was certainly an ulterior motive in turning water into wine.

 

[ecco]

I just spent about two hours on a long post to one of my atheist friends on another forum who thinks Jesus is coming back.

Why would an atheist think Jesus is coming back.

He said he really had nothing better to do but wait for Jesus but I assume he meant that facetiously. I do not think he really "believes" Jesus is coming back.

Then why did you spend two hours on a post trying to convince him that Jesus is not coming back?

If I was a nonbeliever I would be off sunning myself on a beach somewhere.

In regards to Christianity, and some of its beliefs, like Jesus returning, you are a nonbeliever. Yet you spend hours posting here instead of sunning yourself on a beach somewhere.

 

[ecco]

So, rather than just post a link to an article, it would be helpful to quote those portions of the article that you feel support your viewpoint ("Just saving obvious steps")

The article in whole supports the viewpoint, and goes into some depth in explanation. That’s why I posted the link, and not just a sentence from it. If you had looked more carefully, you would have seen a couple references to J, E, P, D— the four authors.

OK Mrs. Grundy.

 

[ecco]

You still have all your work before you. Providing proof is the burden of the one making a claim to certain knowledge.

Yes, you are absolutely correct, providing proof is the burden of the one making a claim. Thank you for reminding me of that basic fact. I should have pointed that out to you when you posted...

Of all the moral failing that plague mankind promiscuity is one of the worst.

I didn't then, but, since you insist, I will now ask you to provide evidence to back up your assertion. Please note, I'm letting you off easy. I'm not even asking for proof, merely evidence.

 

[ecco]

I edited post #521 incorrectly, can you go back and respond to the rest of it?

See above post # 531.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then why did you spend two hours on a post trying to convince him that Jesus is not coming back?

I was not trying to convince him of anything. I was just setting the record straight, namely regarding Jesus and Baha'u'llah and how they are related to one another. He seemed confused but now he knows what I know. He can choose to believe whatever he wants to about it.
Besides that, it is a public forum so other people can read what I wrote.

In regards to Christianity, and some of its beliefs, like Jesus returning, you are a nonbeliever. Yet you spend hours posting here instead of sunning yourself on a beach somewhere.

I am not here to talk about Christianity and I rarely do. I much prefer talking to atheists.
I wish I could go to a beach but I have too many obligations that keep me at home, so here I am.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Are you just yanking chains? Because I really don’t think you’re dull enough to at least not appreciate the literary beauty of the mythic tales and metaphors made use of in the texts, as well as the multicultural attestation of them.

Would you hand a copy of Mine Kampf to an 8 year old, without knowing his/her maturity level? Or worse-- without an explanation first?

But people *do* hand the hideous, misogynist, murder-filled bible to kids even younger than that, and tell them it's "the word of god"....!

I support the notion that some literature should be locked away from just anybody-- perhaps until University level of maturity? The bible and other self-proclaimed "holey" texts first and foremost.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Well actually, it was the other way around. You justified the bloodshed when humans did it for political reasons but vilified God for acts of justice that he carried out in the past. It was HOOMANS justifying their violence because GODDIT IT TOO. Can't you see that?.

GOD! remember? For a GOD-- the possible solutions are LITERALLY INFINITE.

Unless .... your god... is kinda DUMB? So incredibly LACKING in the imagination department, that HENIOUS acts was the BEST it could think up?

Wow... your god is dumber than a box of hammers, if your paragraph above is at all accurate.... !

It is exactly what the Catholic Church did as well.....they invented a god that tortures people in a burning hell and decided that if God could do that, it justified them burning people alive at the stake. Sickenly sad...isn't it?.

Yes.... all gods are created by HUMANS.... even yours. It's why they act so.... **human**.

I know that I think way more of God than you do, but that is because I know him.......but hey, you are free to believe whatever you like about him....it doesn't make it true however. And if you go down shaking your fist at him, please remember that it was your choice to believe what you did. Its not like you weren't told or anything....right?

LMAO! You think that threatening me with hell from your ugly god, has any affect?

Oh. My. If I cared what your "god" did, I'd not be an UnBeliever, now would I?

 

[sealchan]

One can look at the bible in different ways.

Some people believe the bible is the True Word of God. These people are faced with the dilemma of an Omniscient God "regretting" how His creation turned out, not once but multiple times. In the instance of Adam & Eve He heaped sin on them to extend for all time. In the instance of the Flood, He killed most of them.

In reality, the OT stories are a compilation of myths that predate the writing of the OT by millennia. Stories that go back to early thinking/talking humans asking questions like where did man come from, addressing morality and passing on knowledge. Unanswerable questions were answered with GodDidIt.

Even today people rely on GodDidIt.

I would just add that as those earlier stories were incorporated into the Bible they were altered in order to fit the understanding that the author(s) had of the God they knew/believed in. There is room in my view for there being a "true" perspective in the form of objective knowledge but much less simplistic than the literalistic view that many have inherited from tradition and authority.

 

[sealchan]

For something to be defective, it must have a flaw. Do you agree?
When God created Adam and Eve, what was the flaw?

Either God or the story teller who brought us Adam and Eve.

 

[sojourner]

Would you hand a copy of Mine Kampf to an 8 year old, without knowing his/her maturity level? Or worse-- without an explanation first?

But people *do* hand the hideous, misogynist, murder-filled bible to kids even younger than that, and tell them it's "the word of god"....!

I support the notion that some literature should be locked away from just anybody-- perhaps until University level of maturity? The bible and other self-proclaimed "holey" texts first and foremost.

That’s why they print “children’s bibles.” But yeah. It takes a certain level of maturity to handle the texts responsibly. That’s why we have *responsible* clergy...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

That’s why they print “children’s bibles.” But yeah. It takes a certain level of maturity to handle the texts responsibly. That’s why we have *responsible* clergy...

Indeed. Looking at the fiasco in Philadelphia has been .... eye-opening for many of late.

Me? I'm just sad that my basic cynicism has been re-affirmed.

...... again.

*sigh*

 

[nPeace]

Either God or the story teller who brought us Adam and Eve.

So Adam and Eve were not flawed, as you were suggesting earlier. Thank you.
You can't prove the new assertions either.