Why can not religious beliefs and theory of evolution go hand in hand?

[metis]

Why is it so difficult to be an believer in God (or other deities) and still say.
Theory of evolution may have a lot of truth in It?

When students came into my Introduction to Anthropology course, I ran across this a lot with probably about half the class feeling that they were incompatible. I then had to explain in some detail that the ToE shouldn't in any way conflict with one's religious beliefs because the ToE doesn't posit exactly what caused our universe and life to form to begin with. I also explained the extensive use of "myth" [storytelling-- but it doesn't mean nor imply falsehood] is characteristic of all religious groups.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My understanding is that leaving God out of it fails to explain cause and effect

That makes no sense.

and evolution itself which is impossible to have been a random occurrence

Evolution isn't a random occurrence.
Instead, it is an inevitable occurrence considering the properties of life.

Whenever you have systems that reproduce with variation and which are in competition with peers over limited resources, then evolutionary change over time is inevitable.

which is not only very unscientific but I believe to be extremely superstitious because order cannot come from disorder and randomness.

That makes no sense in context of evolution either.
A homo sapiens isn't "more orderly" then its primate ancestors. Or any of the species that came before it.

So the elements of the earth just got together and said ‘let’s create a human being’.

No. That sounds more like what creationists say.

The human body is the most complex existence in the universe

No, it isn't.

requiring perfect regulation

No, it doesn't.

, cooperation and programming between the organs, blood, bone, tissue, nerves to function cooperatively.

Not any more then any other species.

And this came about randomly? Impossible.

Natural selection isn't random.



I'm just going to skip the rest. It's clear that you are arguing from a position of extreme ignorance. There is no point in reading on. Try reading up on evolution theory before continuing this charade, because this is just silly.

It's like trying to argue against gravity by pointing at the fact that hammers float instead of falling in the international space station. It's just .... silly.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

I have spent quite a lot of time recently debating with TE'ists on the biologos forum.

The real problem i notice with inviduals on that forum is that essentially the name explains the priority given to "bio" as the first source of all authority and the "logos" second place to it!

Now i dont know about anyone else here, however, i am 100% certain in my biblical interpretation that we are expected by God to use the scriptures in a manner that it alone is "His authoritative and inspired Word". He warns us directly in the book of Revelation about the consequences of moderating our beliefs...the church of Laodocea (Revelation Ch 3) is the specific illustration i am talking about!

How anyone can consider that inspired means God used unintelligent dimwits to corruptly or even stupidly write down his message to us is beyond my comprehension. As an illustration:

If an engineer over the phone and in person, describes how his creation (a motor vehicle with an internal combustion engine) works and dictates using a variety of medium the innermost workings of that vehcile, and the philosophy behind its design and intended use. i would expect that when a person who is desiring to really deeply understand it has finished studying the written work, they should be perfectly capable of intimately operating the vheicle and explaining the innermost workings of it. This does not mean that person is capable of building the vehicle or its engine, but they do know exactly how it works and why, along with its appropriate uses...also not forgetting how to correctly care for it!

Like the internal combustion engine, our universe, our planet, and our lives are no different. We cannot make what we have here, but God has explained fully why he made it, how it was made, and what went wrong due to poor maintenance. He has also given us troubleshooting guidance in how to fix it.

Now our vehicle, was corrupted by a man of untoward intentions after it was delivered to us...this evil man spun the vehicles new owner a bit of a half truth and a lot of lie claiming it was ok to fuel that vehicle by adding grit in the fuel system and that we did not need the fuel filter anymore. Our vehicle soon broke down with irreparable damage to the engine. Unfortunately, the engine seized and in doing so sent the vehicle into a skidding slide, the vehicle coming to rest in a ditch on the side of the road suffering additional damage to most of its panels and bending its chassy, damaging th suspension and wheel alignment...along with a host of other problems.

The creator, was so concerned about this horrible deceit and himself became our mechanic. He attended the motor vehicle broken down on the side of the road, looked over the vehicle with dismay, organized a tow truck, and sent our vehicle into the workshop for repair and returned it back to us. He has been very upfront in informing us that the vehicle is ruined and will never be the same again but he promised us (and we should believe His promise) he is going to personally deliver us a no strings attached new for old replacement guarantee and that he will not only foot the entire bill for this, but pay for it personally out of his own bank account at great cost to Himself.

The new vehicle is on its way. In the meantime, that horrible individual with untoward intentions is creating all kinds of dramas inciting absurd legal litigations against the engineer, rock throwing sessions at the engineer's house, inciting a mob to drag the engineer out onto the street and beat Him up, cause fights even amongst vehicle owners themselves...its a terrible display of manipulation causing widespread despair and even complete loss of faith by many in all forms of engineering...people have even resorted to attempting to build alternative vehicles from inferior materials and flawed design principles in the hope that they can go it alone without any engineering at all!

The last paragraph is my view as a Christian is the problem with Origin of Species! The premise i think of this book is that there is no God, no designer, no creator, the premise of that book follows on from the idea that all life started from a singularity that had nothing to do with God. In my view, this is irreconcilable with philosophy of Christianity for many reasons, however, for me the following is the most important:
1. Jesus is not only Lord of the Sabbath, He is the Sabbath
2. We are told, that in the same way that Noah and His sons enterred to Ark, the same way that the children of Israel enterred into Cannan, at the end of time on this evil earth the righteouse who choose to believe in Him shall enter into the Lords rest...the Sabbath.
3. The Lords rest, the Sabbath, is a restoration of sinful back to perfection...to do away with the corruption that invokes the wages of sin = death.
4. The law will always remain...that part does not change...so enterring into the Lords rest does not mean there is no longer any law. We know from Genesis 2 that the law predates mankind's sin...

Gen 2:15 Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.16 And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”​

5. If we have no reason to take a very literal reading of the account of our origins in Genesis 1, i do not see how we can do any differntly in terms of morality illustrated in this chapter or indeed Exodus 20. It becomes an easy target for explaining away anything that dissagrees with our sinful interpretation of all that is around us. We are merely mirroring the mistake that Adam and Eve made in the garden of Eden. Remember what the serpent said to Eve?

Gen 3:1 Now the serpenta was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden?’ ”2The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3but about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’ ”4“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.​

I think anyone who puts the "bio" before the "logos" is making the identical foundational error that Adam and Eve made in the garden of Eden and the same foundational error that many made at the time of the flood. My belief is that God provided the genetic ability within the people and animals in the ark for the repopulation of the earth, however, make no mistake, there is no interpretation of numerous and very self evident passages of scripture where one can claim we evolved from apes!

 

[Heyo]

The last paragraph is my view as a Christian is the problem with Origin of Species! The premise i think of this book is that there is no God, no designer, no creator, the premise of that book follows on from the idea that all life started from a singularity that had nothing to do with God. In my view, this is irreconcilable with philosophy of Christianity for many reasons, however, for me the following is the most important:

The irreconcilable difference between science and religion is that science doesn't allow magic and religion requires it.
Most believers can accept that magic isn't necessary for most physical phenomena. The question is only where they draw the line. Are angels pressing things down to earth or are the laws of gravity at work? Do germs transmit disease or sin? Did humans evolve together with the other great apes or where they created from mud by a golem spell?
Where is your line?

 

[loverofhumanity]

That makes no sense.



Evolution isn't a random occurrence.
Instead, it is an inevitable occurrence considering the properties of life.

Whenever you have systems that reproduce with variation and which are in competition with peers over limited resources, then evolutionary change over time is inevitable.



That makes no sense in context of evolution either.
A homo sapiens isn't "more orderly" then its primate ancestors. Or any of the species that came before it.




No. That sounds more like what creationists say.



No, it isn't.



No, it doesn't.



Not any more then any other species.


Natural selection isn't random.



I'm just going to skip the rest. It's clear that you are arguing from a position of extreme ignorance. There is no point in reading on. Try reading up on evolution theory before continuing this charade, because this is just silly.

It's like trying to argue against gravity by pointing at the fact that hammers float instead of falling in the international space station. It's just .... silly.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree because I see signs of God in every atom, in nature and in us but you do not so I must respect that and not force the issue.

 

[Valjean]

Sorry maybe I used the wrong word? I mean we didn’t evolve from the ape. We were always a distinct human species since time began.

Why do you say that, when there is so much evidence from genetics and paleontology that we are just another evolved species of animal?

"Since time began?" The Earth itself hasn't been here since time began, and at the time the dinosaurs disappeared there were no mammals much larger than rats.

What is your timeline? When did the human species appear -- and how, if not evolved from previous species?
Finally, what is your evidence for this?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why do you say that, when there is so much evidence from genetics and paleontology that we are just another evolved species of animal?

"Since time began?" The Earth itself hasn't been here since time began, and at the time the dinosaurs disappeared there were no mammals much larger than rats.

What is your timeline? When did the human species appear -- and how, if not evolved from previous species?
Finally, what is your evidence for this?

There is a vast difference between a human and an animal. We are a completely unique species and are capable of amazing things animals just cannot do. I believe man has always existed if not on this planet then elsewhere.

The evidence is that we are spiritual beings, scientific beings capable of rising above the laws of nature to travel in space, discover new sciences, etc no need to go on. The animal does not progress or advance and is limited to its own sphere while man can build skyscrapers and the internet. The animal has none of these qualities because it is not human.

 

[Valjean]

My understanding is that leaving God out of it fails to explain cause and effect and evolution itself which is impossible to have been a random occurrence which is not only very unscientific but I believe to be extremely superstitious because order cannot come from disorder and randomness. So the elements of the earth just got together and said ‘let’s create a human being’. The human body is the most complex existence in the universe requiring perfect regulation, cooperation and programming between the organs, blood, bone, tissue, nerves to function cooperatively.

"Goddidit" explains nothing. It just posits an agent. The only explanation is offered by science.

You seem to be conflating abiogenesis -- the origin of life -- with evolution, which applies only to already extant life. These are separate fields.
Evolution is not random. No biologist claims this; and order from disorder seems to apply more to abiogenesis than evolution. In fact, order from disorder is observed every day in ordinary chemistry.
Order does arise from randomness and disorder.

You seem to have very little understanding of either chemical evolution or the mechanisms described by the theory of evolution, hence your personal incredulity. The causes of change within species are well established, observable and tested. They aren't that complex, and require no magical manipulation.

Fact: the human body is no more complex than that of a cat or canary. Nor is it anywhere near perfection. It's largely a Rube Goldberg of modifications cobbled together from previously existing structures and physiology. A first-year engineering student could make major improvements.
You need to take some basic biology courses, and perhaps some comparative anatomy and physiology.

And this came about randomly? Impossible.

Personal incredulity and watchmaker fallacies. If you understood the mechanisms described by science you wouldn't jump to these unwarranted conclusions.

From a TV set to the latest computer, years of ‘deliberate’ technological and organised effort is required. Without a highly intelligent Being neither man, nor the universe could randomly create itself into a functioning entity as it has no will or direction.

This is just the well debunked watchmaker fallacy coupled with personal incredulity from lack of understanding of the mechanisms involved. It's a False Analogy.
Watches and passenger planes don't evolve. Reproduction with variation, and subsequent, non-random, incremental, sorting out of variants, is the foundation of evolution, and clearly doesn't apply to manufactured items.

So evolution yes but by design not randomness. Every seed every plant is ‘programmed’ to fulfil a certain function.

Stop it! Where are you getting this idea that natural selection is random? Organisms are neither pre- nor purposefully designed. They come about and change through perfectly understandable mechanisms, that you seem to know nothing of.

As to man, God I believe willed the elements to come together in a composition and formula of His making, known only to Him, to create a human being, and ordained only humans to be spiritual beings not apes or chimps, which is why man over centuries can discover, research, fly to the moon and has progressed and advanced while the animals remain bereft of all these things and cannot advance beyond the limitations set on them by the creator.

Please -- you're just preaching religious folklore. Can you support any of this factually?

It’s common sense to me and clearly obvious that man did not create or design himself and neither could the elements which have neither willpower nor intelligence to create something so complex.

That's the problem with common sense. It's often demonstrably wrong. The universe doesn't work by common sense. Personal Incredulity - Definition & Examples | LF

If I leave a ton of bricks, wood, a roof and a floor and I come back in a million years will I find a house? Without a builder that’s impossible. An intelligent builder is required as the random elements alone would never have a clue how to build it.

NO!
Again. Bricks and wood don't reproduce with variation. It's a false analogy. You're arguing from ignorance. You don't understand the mechanisms described by the ToE.
Please learn something about the mechanisms of evolution before you declare it random.

 

[Valjean]

We’ll just have to agree to disagree because I see signs of God in every atom, in nature and in us but you do not so I must respect that and not force the issue.

What are these "signs of God," and how are you evaluate them to be such? Are your conclusions testable, falsifiable -- or just emotional?

 

[Valjean]

There is a vast difference between a human and an animal. We are a completely unique species and are capable of amazing things animals just cannot do. I believe man has always existed if not on this planet then elsewhere.

But humans are animals! What do you think humans are -- plants, minerals?
All species are unique, or they wouldn't be species, would they?
Being able to do unique things does not make us any different from the myriad other species that can do unique things. Many organisms have talents humans lack, or shared abilities far exceeding those of humans.
Why do you believe humans have always existed? From what empirical evidence did you come to this conclusion?

The evidence is that we are spiritual beings,

This is a claim, not evidence. They're different.
What do you mean by "spiritual being, and why do you find this quality biologically significant?

...scientific beings capable of rising above the laws of nature to travel in space, discover new sciences, etc no need to go on.

What is a scientific being? Most of your assertions are not science-based.
Humans do not rise above the laws of nature, we utilize them, through understanding of them. These technologies you cite did not did not take off till we learned to abandon faith and common sense assumptions, and adopted the scientific method of testing and assessing evidence critically.

The animal does not progress or advance and is limited to its own sphere while man can build skyscrapers and the internet. The animal has none of these qualities because it is not human.

So human biological uniqueness is defined by technology? No, it is not. We were human before we had this technology. We are -- anatomically and biochemically -- animals.

"Birds can fly. Humans don't have this quality because they are not avian." Same argument. Same irrelevance.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

They can, and do. Just not to the extent of a LUCA that is promoted by many....

God seems to have created the taxonomic Families of animals, i.e., as the Bible puts it, “according to their kinds”: the Felidae (cat) Family, the Canidae (dog) Family, etc.

Those original species, however many there were (most are probably extinct), then evolved into other, newer species.

IMO, this is the only logical way to explain the arrival of novel features that are beyond the limited power of random mutation.

IOW, animals with the features that are unique to their Families, like the cat’s retractable claws, were created. And diversification/speciation grew from there.

I doubt very few here will agree with me, I don’t know.

 

[loverofhumanity]

"Goddidit" explains nothing. It just posits an agent. The only explanation is offered by science.

You seem to be conflating abiogenesis -- the origin of life -- with evolution, which applies only to already extant life. These are separate fields.
Evolution is not random. No biologist claims this; and order from disorder seems to apply more to abiogenesis than evolution. In fact, order from disorder is observed every day in ordinary chemistry.
Order does arise from randomness and disorder.

You seem to have very little understanding of either chemical evolution or the mechanisms described by the theory of evolution, hence your personal incredulity. The causes of change within species are well established, observable and tested. They aren't that complex, and require no magical manipulation.

Fact: the human body is no more complex than that of a cat or canary. Nor is it anywhere near perfection. It's largely a Rube Goldberg of modifications cobbled together from previously existing structures and physiology. A first-year engineering student could make major improvements.
You need to take some basic biology courses, and perhaps some comparative anatomy and physiology.
Personal incredulity and watchmaker fallacies. If you understood the mechanisms described by science you wouldn't jump to these unwarranted conclusions.
This is just the well debunked watchmaker fallacy coupled with personal incredulity from lack of understanding of the mechanisms involved. It's a False Analogy.
Watches and passenger planes don't evolve. Reproduction with variation, and subsequent, non-random, incremental, sorting out of variants, is the foundation of evolution, and clearly doesn't apply to manufactured items.

Stop it! Where are you getting this idea that natural selection is random? Organisms are neither pre- nor purposefully designed. They come about and change through perfectly understandable mechanisms, that you seem to know nothing of.
Please -- you're just preaching religious folklore. Can you support any of this factually?
That's the problem with common sense. It's often demonstrably wrong. The universe doesn't work by common sense. Personal Incredulity - Definition & Examples | LF
NO!
Again. Bricks and wood don't reproduce with variation. It's a false analogy. You're arguing from ignorance. You don't understand the mechanisms described by the ToE.
Please learn something about the mechanisms of evolution before you declare it random.

Its ok to have your opinion. I just see it differently and to me God is a scientist, the very best. Just look at creation, nature and the human body! Can your scientists create that!

I fully believe and uphold science but as I said, I believe God is the most intelligent scientist Who knows everything and can create. He only has to say ‘Be’ and it is.

I think science at this point still is not yet fully developed and when they reaches that stage it too will agree that man was always man, not an ape, not a chimpanzee and definitely not an animal.

Nice talking to you. Have a nice day.

 

[Heyo]

IOW, animals with the features that are unique to their Families, like the cat’s retractable claws, were created. And diversification/speciation grew from there.

I doubt very few here will agree with me, I don’t know.

It would help if you could name those boundaries and show how those on one side are different enough on the other and there is no in between.
You run into Linné's problem if you try, like him, to find the boundaries. He couldn't and concluded the relatedness of all living things.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What are these "signs of God," and how are you evaluate them to be such? Are your conclusions testable, falsifiable -- or just emotional?

Ok. Look around your home now. Do you see one item that was not made by someone? Your bed, lounge, tv, fridge, wall, roof, plates, chairs. Nature is all around us and it’s cells are ‘programmed’ to perform certain functions. So an apple seed becomes an apple tree and so on. The sun is exactly positioned to support life on earth. A coincidence? Or did the sun say to the earth’ listen here earth, we need to keep a certain distance from each other or man can’t exist, so let’s do it’.

Then the elements had a party one day and said that ‘unless we have fruits and grains’ man won’t have anything to eat and die.

What I’m driving at is that for this planet to sustain life there had to be intelligent decisions made to have everything in place for human life to exist.

So I believe God, the Top Scientist created the formula then commanded evolution to evolve ‘according to HIs Will not randomly. Science doesn’t admit to a God so it’s making heaps of blunders.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But humans are animals! What do you think humans are -- plants, minerals?
All species are unique, or they wouldn't be species, would they?
Being able to do unique things does not make us any different from the myriad other species that can do unique things. Many organisms have talents humans lack, or shared abilities far exceeding those of humans.
Why do you believe humans have always existed? From what empirical evidence did you come to this conclusion?
This is a claim, not evidence. They're different.
What do you mean by "spiritual being, and why do you find this quality biologically significant?
What is a scientific being? Most of your assertions are not science-based.
Humans do not rise above the laws of nature, we utilize them, through understanding of them. These technologies you cite did not did not take off till we learned to abandon faith and common sense assumptions, and adopted the scientific method of testing and assessing evidence critically.
So human biological uniqueness is defined by technology? No, it is not. We were human before we had this technology. We are -- anatomically and biochemically -- animals.

"Birds can fly. Humans don't have this quality because they are not avian." Same argument. Same irrelevance.

How are humans animals can animals be Prophets or professors or doctors or go to University and get a degree. Let’s be reasonable. Animals don’t have a spirit nor can they worship God or have a soul.

 

[Sedim Haba]

I obviously respect that you believe this. But im not even sure I would classify believes like these as even a theory. The reason for that, least to me, is because I think a theory need to address a known issue or problem for which we have no current answer or which is simply not understood well enough for us to figure out.

Actually, I didn't invent this, I can claim no credit. I've been lurking here for years,
despite my recent joined date. Another RF member (sadly don't remember name)
proposed this long ago, and I found it an elegant compromise between Creation Vs.
Evolution that fits Jewish understanding. That the story (and it is way too old to be
considered anything but a myth, even to many Jews) is NOT about the physical
creation but spiritual. So, the issue is in accepting both with minimum conflict.

Not perfect of course, and there is bits of the creation story that might be describing
a physical event, but by and large it's a bad idea to see Genesis as History or Science.

Only ToE can create this, for reasons not relevant to this discussion.

Why would only TOE be able to do this, based on what? Because I would say that it is not relevant in any discussion, unless we are dealing with an actual issue or problem.

Which is why the God theory vs the Multiverse theory is relevant, despite both lacking any form of explanatory power, at least they attempt to deal with the issue of fine tuning.

Well, I'll explain and let you decide. BTW I'm 100% a believer in Multiverse theory, and
also Cyclical Universe Theory. I'll try to be concise, and FYI will be injecting some
rather obscure Jewish mythology/Theosophy/legend into it, but to keep it flowing...

G-d is spirit, in a way far beyond our understanding. And unique. And he decided to
create an 'Other' for... who knows? companionship? We get a hint at this, G-d says
it is not good for us to be alone and also says we are created in his image. We may
not be able to create the 'Other' in anything but fiction, modern example being scifi,
but look at how we rush to create AI, despite the well understood dangers!

So... G-d creates the angels, beings of spirit like him. Only, they are not independent.
They are little more than automatons. (Forget the 'Angel Rebellion' nonsense that is
influence outside of Judaism and not in Tanakh at all.)

So, what to do? Create a being more independent by being more distant. Not by
proximity but by nature. But G-d, being... lets say 'perfect' for lack of better word,
cannot directly create 'not-perfect'. No more than you or I can directly work atoms
and particles. So he creates universe(s) to set the mechanisms in motion to form
these beings. Many failures, Jewish legend says that this universe is the seventh
iteration. (That's the real significance of the 'seven days of creation' IMHO)

So, G-d watches the universe(s) and when a suitable species evolves he chooses.
Then he creates a perfect specimen without any genetic faults (and we have a LOT
of them, why inbreeding is so dangerous and why believing in ONE couple making
a race is just impossible)

So that is how we find Adam in Eden. There's other people on earth, all right,
they're just in the petri dish of the experiment. Without the same soul as Adam,
but an animal soul. But, when man is cast out of Eden, they start interbreeding.

Lots of issues here I know, like when do those not-Adam humans get souls, but...
does this all make sense? Really don't know, I'm hella autistic.

 

[Valjean]

Its ok to have your opinion. I just see it differently and to me God is a scientist, the very best. Just look at creation, nature and the human body! Can your scientists create that!

God is a researcher? What would an omniscient being research?
Perhaps you mean engineer?

I fully believe and uphold science but as I said, I believe God is the most intelligent scientist Who knows everything and can create. He only has to say ‘Be’ and it is.

But the question is, how does he create? By what mechanism did these original progenitors pop into existence?

I think science at this point still is not yet fully developed and when they reaches that stage it too will agree that man was always man, not an ape, not a chimpanzee and definitely not an animal.

No, you don't think this, you feel this. Your belief could not have been arrived at by critical analysis of the available data.
"Fully developed?" What does that mean? Omniscience?
Clearly you have your own, personal definition of "animal," that seems to have nothing to do with biochemistry. Could you clarify what 'animal' means, to you?

 

[Valjean]

Ok. Look around your home now. Do you see one item that was not made by someone? Your bed, lounge, tv, fridge, wall, roof, plates, chairs. Nature is all around us and it’s cells are ‘programmed’ to perform certain functions. So an apple seed becomes an apple tree and so on. The sun is exactly positioned to support life on earth. A coincidence? Or did the sun say to the earth’ listen here earth, we need to keep a certain distance from each other or man can’t exist, so let’s do it’.

Didn't you read my post #68? This is a false analogy. Do you understand why? Do you understand descent with modification, natural selection and incremental change? If you don't understand these, it's no wonder evolution makes no sense to you.

My bed and fridge don't reproduce. They are not the product of a long series of selections, from among reproductive variations.
Just because some complex items are planned and manufactured purposefully, it doesn't follow that all complex things need be. There are other mechanisms, natural mechanisms, that can produce complexity.

What I’m driving at is that for this planet to sustain life there had to be intelligent decisions made to have everything in place for human life to exist.

Why? This just doesn't follow. Chemistry and physics happen automatically. They're effects are unguided. Why could they not produce humans?

Many of the steps of this process are known. None of the steps of magic poofing are known. In fact, no known mechanism can account for poofing, which is why we call it magic.

So I believe God, the Top Scientist created the formula then commanded evolution to evolve ‘according to HIs Will not randomly. Science doesn’t admit to a God so it’s making heaps of blunders.

Scientists aren't creators. They're researchers.
Evolution didn't evolve. The changes occurred by known, observable, natural mechanisms. At no point in the process has any magical manipulation been found necessary. If you know of any, please inform us.
You keep talking about randomness. Evolution is not random and noöne but creationists claim it is.

How are humans animals can animals be Prophets or professors or doctors or go to University and get a degree. Let’s be reasonable. Animals don’t have a spirit nor can they worship God or have a soul.

"Animal" refers to biochemistry, not accomplishments. Animal is what we are, not what we do,
Again, how do you define "animal?"

 

[sayak83]

There is a vast difference between a human and an animal. We are a completely unique species and are capable of amazing things animals just cannot do. I believe man has always existed if not on this planet then elsewhere.

The evidence is that we are spiritual beings, scientific beings capable of rising above the laws of nature to travel in space, discover new sciences, etc no need to go on. The animal does not progress or advance and is limited to its own sphere while man can build skyscrapers and the internet. The animal has none of these qualities because it is not human.

Vast amounts of scientific evidence demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that humans evolved from ancestral ape species. The conclusion therefore seems that Bahai faith's beliefs are contrary to science. There is no fundamental difference between myself and a dog or a cat apart from the fact that we have larger brain and hence have greater intelligence and awareness (basically the difference between a PC and a supercomputer). And yes, most animals (most vertebrates and some invertebrates at least) are conscious and have inner mental states as far as can be inferred from science.

 

[loverofhumanity]

God is a researcher? What would an omniscient being research?
Perhaps you mean engineer?
But the question is, how does he create? By what mechanism did these original progenitors pop into existence?
No, you don't think this, you feel this. Your belief could not have been arrived at by critical analysis of the available data.
"Fully developed?" What does that mean? Omniscience?
Clearly you have your own, personal definition of "animal," that seems to have nothing to do with biochemistry. Could you clarify what 'animal' means, to you?

Not a researcher as He already knows everything, then just God. But He knows the formula and combination and in what balance the elements have to be combined to create a human being. That formula is unknown to us.

it is the mind and the soul that distinguish humanity, and rejects the idea that human beings are merely animals, a haphazard accident, and captives of nature trapped in the struggle for existence. (Baha’i Writings)

It is evident that there are instances throughout history when statements made in the Sacred Scriptures that conflicted with the scientific views of the time were confirmed by science itself centuries later. There also may well be statements in the Writings about the material world the veracity of which will be proven by science in future. The notion of scientific “truth” does not encompass every claim or theory asserted in the name of science. (House of Justice)

This link below is regarding the difference between man and the animal.


Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 185-190