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Why can't Evol just admit to Design?
- Thread starter ttechsan
- Start date
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
That is not what I said. The perception of design based on the perceived desirability and utility of the functionality provided does not mean something has been designed. It is simply a non sequitur (there is no logical progression between the two).
Likewise we cannot say RNA and DNA were designed, instead it appears they were derived an important distinction; their apparent 'design' the complex form and fantastic utility provided are derived from a rather simple process - competitive propagation from a population of contenders some including incremental random alterations; the process you might know as evolution.
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Get well before trying to take this snake pit seriously.
Here...have some chicken soup....
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dust1n
Zindīq
Sorry to hear. Health issues are, indeed, terrible.
I guess... you just said it can be explained... that's what I was looking forward to.
Don't bother wasting prayers on me. I'm assuming that don't work for people who actively do no believe in god and never will.
God exists outside of time so He didn't "wait" for anything. A trillion years is as a blink of the eye to Him. God is the master conductor of the ever-flucuating symphony that we call life and the cosmos. You really think this is all about humans? It's really not.
Actually God does hear prayers from us all and esp from us believers and for people we pray for. As I said, All bad in mankind comes from the fall of mankind and Satan. Now you can choose to not believe that but it is true. That is the simple explanation. Yes it explains mine too. I am not mad at God about it either. God gets blamed for so much not His fault. But this gets into Theology which I can handle but we probably need to move to whatever forum that is handled on. I am about to go to bed so when I come back and you want to do that I am willing.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
Yes, God exists outside of Time and actually created Time. My point was since you believe in Evol and the long span of time you are saying God waited millions or billions of yrs in man's time He created before He got the man so He could fellowship with mankind who He created in His image. The only thing in creation with a soul and created in God's image. I hope that explains it further and more clearly.
Why would He do that when He could do that instantly and have that fellowship immediately. ON the sixth day!
Why would He do that when He could do that instantly and have that fellowship immediately. ON the sixth day!
dust1n
Zindīq
Was Satan part of God's design too?
outhouse
Atheistically
So far creation is known mythology outlawed in science classes because there is nothing to test for, nothing can be found to attribute to creation.
There is nothing obvious about creation except your wishing and wanting through faith and nothing but faith.
Humanity's existence is not the sole purpose of creation. How do you know we're the only species with a soul? You don't know that. There's plenty of other species on this planet that have cognitive abilities that approach ours or perhaps are even on the same level (such as dolphins and whales). And that's just on this just one puny planet. Who knows what other lifeforms lie outside of our solar system and galaxy? The universe is far more immense than you or I can really comprehend. But you think it's all for humans? Yeah, right! That's one of the problems with reading Genesis literally - you tend to make an idol out of humans. The truth is that the Bible was written by humans who were trying to make sense out of their place in the cosmos and understand the Creator. It is not a science textbook. It's the story of long spiritual journey and to take it all literally is to miss the point.
Well as for Judaism we are different in a very key issue. So I'd ask them. I won't speak for them. As for animals. Like I said, All of creation, that includes animals, even the ground, suffers from the fall of mankind. That is why mankind has to toil for the ground to produce out of it. That wasn't true in the Garden of Eden. The Bible says in Romans chapter 8 starting with vs 18-22. How all of creation groans until the re-creation comes. There will be a new Heaven and a New Earth. Then it will all be restored to its original creation and perfection before the fall.
You must remember God loved man so much he gave us free will choice. By creating free will it allowed the choice of rejection and thus evil the exact opposite of God and perfection. See if I can only choose you then I am a robot and it isn't out of love but because I have no other option.
IT is like the poem, If you find something or someone you love, set them free, If they come back they are yours, If not they never were!
That is alot like God. AS much as it hurt Him knowing many would choose against Him and what that meant for them. He had to out of love give mankind free will choice or it wasn't love at all. It was robots which isn't love at all. So totally opposite of God is evil and bad. When mankind, Adam and Eve fell and chose against God that created evil and what you see in the world today.
But God being Loving had to create another way to Himself. But again it was only going to be by choice. He did it by Jesus. I won't get into all the Theology of it here. But Jesus paid the price that had to be paid for the sin.
Prior to Jesus, It was by Faith in God and Jesus coming. Thereafter it was that Jesus was who He said He was and accepting that gift. It is no different than accepting a gift that someone else paid for and gave to you. IT is only yours if you accept it. If not then its not yours.
If you are driving on a road and someone says on the road, Don't go this way the Bridge is out! Go this other way. You look and see most people are ignoring him so you go the way most are going. But when you do that. You find too late you go off the road into the water and die.
Whose fault was it? Yours, the guy who warned you? The people who went the same way as you, the people who followed the guys advice. Whose fault is it?
Well just like Evol, You can deny all the obvious facts of Design right in front of your face because you don't want to see it. Fine. You have that free will choice.
You can choose to ignore the ones telling you about Jesus too. Free Will. So much proof exists, just like Design etc validating Jesus is who He said He was so therefore He has to be telling the Truth, "John 14:6 I am the way the truth the life, No one comes to the Father but by Me."
Again I can give you so much proof validating the Bible and Jesus. But you can choose to ignore the obvious on it. Problem is you have been told and warned. Now you have been told and warned. Now whose fault will it be if you ignore it and drive off the bridge by not paying attn and following the crowd and ignoring the obvious. You can rationalize all you want but going off the Bridge all the rationalizations won't matter as you had your chances and options and you willingly chose to ignore.
If you actually want the other proof let me know and where I should go to give it to you and I will.
Good Night. God Bless
You must remember God loved man so much he gave us free will choice. By creating free will it allowed the choice of rejection and thus evil the exact opposite of God and perfection. See if I can only choose you then I am a robot and it isn't out of love but because I have no other option.
IT is like the poem, If you find something or someone you love, set them free, If they come back they are yours, If not they never were!
That is alot like God. AS much as it hurt Him knowing many would choose against Him and what that meant for them. He had to out of love give mankind free will choice or it wasn't love at all. It was robots which isn't love at all. So totally opposite of God is evil and bad. When mankind, Adam and Eve fell and chose against God that created evil and what you see in the world today.
But God being Loving had to create another way to Himself. But again it was only going to be by choice. He did it by Jesus. I won't get into all the Theology of it here. But Jesus paid the price that had to be paid for the sin.
Prior to Jesus, It was by Faith in God and Jesus coming. Thereafter it was that Jesus was who He said He was and accepting that gift. It is no different than accepting a gift that someone else paid for and gave to you. IT is only yours if you accept it. If not then its not yours.
If you are driving on a road and someone says on the road, Don't go this way the Bridge is out! Go this other way. You look and see most people are ignoring him so you go the way most are going. But when you do that. You find too late you go off the road into the water and die.
Whose fault was it? Yours, the guy who warned you? The people who went the same way as you, the people who followed the guys advice. Whose fault is it?
Well just like Evol, You can deny all the obvious facts of Design right in front of your face because you don't want to see it. Fine. You have that free will choice.
You can choose to ignore the ones telling you about Jesus too. Free Will. So much proof exists, just like Design etc validating Jesus is who He said He was so therefore He has to be telling the Truth, "John 14:6 I am the way the truth the life, No one comes to the Father but by Me."
Again I can give you so much proof validating the Bible and Jesus. But you can choose to ignore the obvious on it. Problem is you have been told and warned. Now you have been told and warned. Now whose fault will it be if you ignore it and drive off the bridge by not paying attn and following the crowd and ignoring the obvious. You can rationalize all you want but going off the Bridge all the rationalizations won't matter as you had your chances and options and you willingly chose to ignore.
If you actually want the other proof let me know and where I should go to give it to you and I will.
Good Night. God Bless
Actually Satan was originally an Angel. He was the top angel. God allowed and wanted the angels to choose who to follow. Satan as now called or Lucifer rebelled against God and 1/3 of the angels rebelled with God and were cast out of heaven and are now demons. So yes God had the Angels decide who they would follow also.
Now to bed I go.
Now to bed I go.
Because all the available evidence indicates its absence.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
So there will be an entirely new Universe? (As I assume that is what you mean by Heaven).
So Animals must also suffer for something they had nothing to do. So not only did God choose to punish man (the last of his creations), but all the creations afterwards.
I take it you don't believe in dinosaurs right?
I've variously heard....
"God is testing you."
"God never gives you anything you can't handle."
Presuming that God is all powerful & all knowing, when he created Satan, he knew what Satan would do.
He could've created a Satan who wouldn't rebel, but he chose to go with the evil model.
camanintx
Well-Known Member
The appearance of design does not prove design. Does the appearance of an Indian wearing headphones in this photo mean that someone intended it?
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Yeah. This is just a bunk website trying to push their lies into your brain. Then they take a quote from Dawkins (because they see him as some kind of Atheist leader as if we had some kind of club with weekly meetings) which actually doesn't support their argument.
Though this is like...the 10th time you've done this in a week so its not really a surprise. I have a thread where YEC can challenge evolution in a thread where I shall not mock them and treat their claims with the utmost seriousness and explain why they are wrong.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/155754-challenge-issued-arguments-yec.html