Why can't I go to heaven?

[look3467]

However the purpose of the cross is not redemption of sin (which is impossible) but the redemption from sin which is salvation. Forgiveness of past sins was always available and not the primary purpose of the cross but certainly reiterated and memorialized.>>>Muffled

Sin...we will, and yet sin is forgiven, and if forgiven we are redeemed.

The power of sin over us is what was conquered at the cross. An in order to do that we needed to be forgiven completely as being without sin.

Thus in Jesus we are free from the power of sin which in Him holds no power over us.

So, yes, we find redemption from sin in the power and might of God in Jesus at the cross.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

You know, I heared tell that they was fifteen of them there commandments and they was written on rocks, well parently one of them rocks got broked and now we only got ten. But my preacher swears on the bible that those other five were all the fun ones, so we ken still do all them ones, an I sure am happy bout that. Still he ain't never tole me what them five are, he just tell me to enjoy em............an I do by golly. :biglaugh:
For the mods.........an attempt at humour.

Could your preacher be telling about the five spiritual gifts which when one becomes a member of the heavenly kingdom by birth, one can enjoy all or part of them?

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Their is joy in them.

And in them there are no laws for there is no limit to the exercise of them.

Blessings, AJ

 

[miss interpret]

No they don't. They highlight the immorality of this god.

Quite the contrary, they show that man cannot save himself by his own actions it shows the level of righteousness God is looking for.

 

[look3467]

Quite the contrary, they show that man cannot save himself by his own actions it shows the level of righteousness God is looking for.

I concur!
Blessings, AJ

 

[ChristineES]

No they don't. They highlight the immorality of this god.

I guess it is really immoral to tell people not to commit adultery, not to murder, steal or lie. Give me a break. :areyoucra

 

[Tristesse]

Quite the contrary, they show that man cannot save himself by his own actions it shows the level of righteousness God is looking for.

Save himself from what?

 

[Tristesse]

I guess it is really immoral to tell people not to commit adultery, not to murder, steal or lie. Give me a break. :areyoucra

I wasn't referring specifically to the ten commandments, although I don't find anything particularly moral about, "I am your god, you shall have no other gods before me." I was referring to the fact that we "need" a savior. And I also don't see any great wisdom with, "thou shall not murder, steal, commit adultry or lie." Especially when a lie, if used at the proper time could save a life or lives.

 

[Tristesse]

In your eyes yes!

Did you miss my post when I mentioned about the Oxymoron?



If our condemnation be glory, meaning Thank God it is so, because of our own merits, we'd be doomed.

Which, the glory of God is that He, by the administration of His own righteousness in Jesus, we don't have to merit our own.

Is that so hard to accept? I mean it was given to us as a free gift!

I mean, come on, what do you have to loose?

Blessings, AJ

The entire doctrine of salvation is utterly immoral. How is sacrificing yourself to yourself to serve as a loophole for a rule that you created, moral or just?

What do I have to loose? How about my humanity and self dignity.

 

[fishy]

The entire doctrine of salvation is utterly immoral. How is sacrificing yourself to yourself to serve as a loophole for a rule that you created, moral or just?

What do I have to loose? How about my humanity and self dignity.

:clap :biglaugh: :clap
BRAVO

 

[fishy]

Quite the contrary, they show that man cannot save himself by his own actions it shows the level of righteousness God is looking for.

Man cannot save himself from the sentence imposed upon him by god for a sin committed with that same gods explicit aid and facilitation. It was god's sentence to rescind, why did god require a human blood sacrifice, of his only son, in order that he rescind his sentence? By sending his son to be sacrificed he acknowledged the injustice of the sentence he had bestowed and once again placed the blame on his creations.

 

[miss interpret]

Man cannot save himself from the sentence imposed upon him by god for a sin committed with that same gods explicit aid and facilitation. It was god's sentence to rescind, why did god require a human blood sacrifice, of his only son, in order that he rescind his sentence? By sending his son to be sacrificed he acknowledged the injustice of the sentence he had bestowed and once again placed the blame on his creations.

God did not impose a sentence on man at all, he gave us all we needed, he by his grace looked over our sins, then man asked God for rules that could show how they could earn God's favour, the ten commandments was the level God expected, it is that simple.If you do not believe why are you worried about what is and is not acceptable.If you join a group or club and they set out the rules would you complain the rules are to difficult and blame them for not being able to join.Under the free gift of Grace all you have to do is accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, then you have righteousness through the sacrifice of Jesus.

 

[miss interpret]

Man cannot save himself from the sentence imposed upon him by god for a sin committed with that same gods explicit aid and facilitation. It was god's sentence to rescind, why did god require a human blood sacrifice, of his only son, in order that he rescind his sentence? By sending his son to be sacrificed he acknowledged the injustice of the sentence he had bestowed and once again placed the blame on his creations.

not sure where my post went so I will try again.If you don't believe it what difference does it make to you what the rules are?If you wanted to join a club and the rules were so difficult would you blame that club for you not being able to join.the ten commandments were given in response to man's own self righteousness by claiming he could do it by himself.by the sacrifice of Jesus the commandments have now been fullfilled and we are saved under Grace.

 

[fishy]

God did not impose a sentence on man at all, he gave us all we needed, he by his grace looked over our sins, then man asked God for rules that could show how they could earn God's favour, the ten commandments was the level God expected, it is that simple.If you do not believe why are you worried about what is and is not acceptable.If you join a group or club and they set out the rules would you complain the rules are to difficult and blame them for not being able to join.Under the free gift of Grace all you have to do is accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, then you have righteousness through the sacrifice of Jesus.

For this FREE gift you just need to pay this "particular" price, got ya. You know when I give a FREE gift, I expect absolutely nothing in return. I guess that's the difference between just an ordinary human and a GOD. A god doesn't really give FREE gifts. :biglaugh:
Oh wait, who imposed the sentence of death on all of mankind, I think that was probably GOD. And why do I now need to join god's club, did he ever offer me the chance of not being out of his club? He's the one who had a club and locked everybody out. Now he says "kiss my butt and I'll let you into my club, yeah I know it wasn't your fault the door was locked but that's your problem not mine."

 

[look3467]

Save himself from what?

From eternal extinction! As in not having ever existed at all.

Reasoning: is because having been made as gods, the lesser god can not exist for there is only but one God (Upper case G) and that being the creator.

Now, the creator having created lesser gods, must Himself either abandon His creation or save it.

He choose the latter and thus ceased from sacrificing us (all of humanity)to His creation process consequence.

Let me explain the consequence part of it.

Creating robots would have been no problem, therefore needing no salvation.

But because He created us with free will, the consequence of that was separation for the reason I mentioned above. Quote: "Reasoning: is because having been made as gods, the lesser god can not exist for there is only but one God (Upper case G) and that being the creator."

So The creator God prepared a body to be the ransom of us all and that being the body of Jesus.

One for all and all for one, I hear is a saying.

But before God could save us all, He had to encapsulate the whole of His creation into another such creation in one day, that being the day of His crucifixion.

This new creation is not a physical one but rather a spiritual creation of which now, via Jesus' sacrifice, not only was one only that was lost, but the whole of God's creation saved.

For those who do not believe in God, this would be hard for you to understand because unless the spirit of God is in you to awake your understanding of spiritual matters, by His own words, one would remain in a lost estate.

But as it is, when one does recognize Jesus as God's Savior for us, then His spirit awakes us to understanding of His kingdom.

To be part of that new kingdom one must be born again, (born into) not in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense.

For an unbeliever, as it been the case many times in my discussions, the question of an unjust God is the stumbling block to not having the ability to understand spiritual matters.

So, I leave it up to those who are unbelievers to choose their own state, as is a God given ability to do so, at no eternal cost to you, but to a physical cost.

Physical costs are a lack of inner peace in troublesome times, lack of hope for an after life, suffer rings without peace and are at the mercy of this world's desires.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

not sure where my post went so I will try again.If you don't believe it what difference does it make to you what the rules are?If you wanted to join a club and the rules were so difficult would you blame that club for you not being able to join.the ten commandments were given in response to man's own self righteousness by claiming he could do it by himself.by the sacrifice of Jesus the commandments have now been fulfilled and we are saved under Grace.

That is to easy to believe via faith; without faith it is an impossibility.
Human understanding requires proof, spiritual understanding requires faith.

Therefore, one must abandon the one and cling to the other, or as the bible states, Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

For this FREE gift you just need to pay this "particular" price, got ya. You know when I give a FREE gift, I expect absolutely nothing in return. I guess that's the difference between just an ordinary human and a GOD. A god doesn't really give FREE gifts. :biglaugh:
Oh wait, who imposed the sentence of death on all of mankind, I think that was probably GOD. And why do I now need to join god's club, did he ever offer me the chance of not being out of his club? He's the one who had a club and locked everybody out. Now he says "kiss my butt and I'll let you into my club, yeah I know it wasn't your fault the door was locked but that's your problem not mine."

How about your very existence? Had it not been for God, you would not be making such statements, for you would have never existed.

The first gift to you was you, as a person, as a living soul, as an individual with god like status, meaning having the intelligent ability to make choices, and lastly, to allow you to continue to exist in a safe heaven as who you are, after this physical life is over.

You've read the story of the Master Potter? What right has the vessel to say, why did you make me,,,just to destroy me?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

What to destroy me?

Mankind's pride in its own existence is blinded by its own existence.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Originally Posted by Ghost of a Rider No doubt a few have. But do you understand that they don't believe it exists? It's more likely that what they're actually saying is not that they don't want to go to heaven but rather that they find the idea of heaven unappealing.

Mostly the idea of being restricted to doing what is right didn't appeal to them.

Watch your step. This is a moral judgment of peoples' character without any justification whatsoever. On what grounds do you make this sort of accusation?

However you could not have rejected that belief under the Lordship of Jesus but by taking back control of your life.

You said that when you accepted Jesus as Lord, you had no choices. Now you're telling me that when I accepted Jesus as Lord, I had the choice to take back control of my life. Obviously this means that you do too, correct? So in fact, you DO have choices, right?

I am whatever God wants me to be. I am not seeking a reward. I wish to have life. I can take up my cross and die but that isn't my first choice. So by giving up my life (by ceding control over it), I gain it (all that falls into God's definition of life).

The fact remains: if what you say is true, you are not responsible for your righteous living.

 

[miss interpret]

For this FREE gift you just need to pay this "particular" price, got ya. You know when I give a FREE gift, I expect absolutely nothing in return. I guess that's the difference between just an ordinary human and a GOD. A god doesn't really give FREE gifts. :biglaugh:
Oh wait, who imposed the sentence of death on all of mankind, I think that was probably GOD. And why do I now need to join god's club, did he ever offer me the chance of not being out of his club? He's the one who had a club and locked everybody out. Now he says "kiss my butt and I'll let you into my club, yeah I know it wasn't your fault the door was locked but that's your problem not mine."

what is this death sentence you think God has imposed?salvation means spending eternity in heaven do you think God would make you do that, would you want God to be a tyrannt and make you believe.if you do not believe in heaven and hell what are you going on about as it does not apply to you.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

If you tried....could you to the letter fulfill all ten of them? Not to mention that even just the thought of desire in your mind would condemn you?

An impossibility you might say?

But what if, God Himself as a man, like us, would use His own righteousness to fulfill to the letter, the full law and the desire of the mind for all of us, wouldn't that then not make us free from it?

How about this verse: Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

You see, the only way for God to save His creation was to condemn it first via a law so strict that all came under it to die. In other words, the law condemned us all to death, spiritual death.

I thought God was omnipotent and that there was nothing he couldn't do. By saying he couldn't save his creation without condemning it first with strict laws we have no hope of abiding by, you're saying there's at least one thing he can't do.

Omnipotence is omnipotence. If he's omnipotent then he can save his creation any way he wants to. If he can't, he's not omnipotent.

Now as for your reference quote: "Do the ten commandments have any inherent moral purpose or are they just there to remind us that we can never be righteous" I say:

Yes, absolutely.......have a moral purpose. Because mankind has the ability, as gods, to rule its own life according to its wishes and desires, would without any guidance run amok to all sorts of injustices.

Thus the law to be for us a school master, to guide us against our own desires which would place us in a position out of favor and thus miss out on His blessings.

And for the second part of your quote, yes, in reminding us that without God's help we are ......simply....nothing.

Blessings, AJ

You tell me that the ten commandments have an inherent moral purpose but instead of telling me what that purpose is, you simply tell me that violating them puts us out of favor. That's not a moral purpose. For example, murder is wrong and immoral: Why? God must have had a reason for deeming murder as immoral. What was it?

 

[fishy]

what is this death sentence you think God has imposed?salvation means spending eternity in heaven do you think God would make you do that, would you want God to be a tyrannt and make you believe.if you do not believe in heaven and hell what are you going on about as it does not apply to you.

Well if you'd told me that before, that there is a third option, I'll take starship pilot and spend eternity exploring the universe, I think that will be enough time. Just so long as I can top myself permanently when I finally become bored with it all. Do I just need to sign the visitors book at the club?