Why can't some people understand that Evolution is not Atheism.

[fantome profane]

It is very frustrating reading post after post in thread after thread where people claim to be arguing against the theory of evolution when it is very apparent that they have no idea what the theory of evolution is, and in fact that they have an issue with is atheism.

The theory of evolution has nothing at all to do with whether of not there is a "God", or "Gods". The vast majority of the scientific communities agrees that the theory of evolution is accurate well established scientific theory. It is not just the Atheists. Evolution is no more atheistic than any other scientific theory. So why do people insist on conflating evolution with atheism?

If you want to attack atheism go ahead, have at it. But to try to attack atheism by denying evolution is ridiculous. It is like trying to attack your enemy by banging your own head against a wall. You are not going to harm your enemy and you certainly are not going to harm the wall.

All they are doing is denying themselves a full understanding and appreciation of the world we live in.

For me it is frustrating, but for them it is an absolute tragedy.

 

[Madhuri]

I feel your pain. Even when I've managed to get someone to see that it isn't the same, 5 minutes later their brain has forgotten the break-through. Very frustrating.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

But but but the bacterial flagellum!

-Nato

 

[swamplizard]

It seems that those who cannot separate the two do more to expand their supposed opposite than not. JMHO

best regards,
swampy

 

[Student of X]

People still talk about evolution?

 

[HonestJoe]

To be honest, the heading for this section of the board represents a major part of the problem. People on both "sides" of the issue have created a false dichotomy between evolution and creationism (which can so easily turn in to atheist versus theism). There are sadly plenty of people misusing evolution as a tool to attack religon (or at least Christianity) just as there are indeed relious people attacking atheism via evolution. They're all idiots.

 

[Revoltingest]

They fail to see that their god has many tools for creation, eg, gravity, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics.
Evolution would be just another of the many tools in his kit. Were I a believer, this would be an inescapable
conclusion.

 

[Quintessence]

The theory of evolution has nothing at all to do with whether of not there is a "God", or "Gods". The vast majority of the scientific communities agrees that the theory of evolution is accurate well established scientific theory. It is not just the Atheists. Evolution is no more atheistic than any other scientific theory. So why do people insist on conflating evolution with atheism?

If you see creation of life as an act of your god(s), it makes perfect sense that some of them would perceive anything that counters that mythology as an attack on the existence of their god(s). One of the important roles of god(s) in mythology is the creation of life and the universe. Removing that is tantamount to an attack on god(s) itself. This is what some creationists feel evolution does. It doesn't have to be interpreted in this fashion, but I can definitely see how certain creationists would perceive it that way and I don't fault them for it. From such a perspective, it is incorrect to say evolution has "nothing at all" to do with the existence of god(s).

Heck, even this aside I would disagree with evolution having "nothing at all" to do with the existence of god(s). As someone who sees the gods everywhere, evolution itself is a divine force. That makes me a creationist who would not interpret evolution as a threat against the gods, but I can still understand how those with other theological beliefs would see it that way.

 

[9Westy9]

People still talk about evolution?

so it would seem

 

[fantome profane]

There are sadly plenty of people misusing evolution as a tool to attack religon (or at least Christianity) just as there are indeed relious people attacking atheism via evolution. They're all idiots.

Absolutly, when I talk about people who conflate Evolution with Atheism, some of those people are on the evolution side. And they are a huge part of the problem.

To be honest, the heading for this section of the board represents a major part of the problem. People on both "sides" of the issue have created a false dichotomy between evolution and creationism (which can so easily turn in to atheist versus theism).

And this is a huge problem and I don't have the answer for it. What is the definition of "creationism"? I guess if you take it literally then all Christians (Jews, Muslims, Hindus and many others) are creationists because they believe in creation. This makes someone like Ken Miller a creationist. But that is not they way the term is generally used, and not what is implied in the heading of this sub forum.

I guess we need to come up with a term that refers only to those who support pseudo-scientific garbage that us loosely based on their religion. But that is what is generally meant by the term "creationist".

 

[Tarheeler]

I think it has a lot in common with those who equate theism with fundamental Christianity; it's easier to attack and disparage something if you equate it with something you don't like or understand, even if it isn't a fair or correct evaluation.

To be honest, the heading for this section of the board represents a major part of the problem. People on both "sides" of the issue have created a false dichotomy between evolution and creationism (which can so easily turn in to atheist versus theism). There are sadly plenty of people misusing evolution as a tool to attack religon (or at least Christianity) just as there are indeed relious people attacking atheism via evolution. They're all idiots.

Good point.

 

[fantome profane]

If you see creation of life as an act of your god(s), it makes perfect sense that some of them would perceive anything that counters that mythology as an attack on the existence of their god(s). One of the important roles of god(s) in mythology is the creation of life and the universe. Removing that is tantamount to an attack on god(s) itself. This is what some creationists feel evolution does. It doesn't have to be interpreted in this fashion, but I can definitely see how certain creationists would perceive it that way and I don't fault them for it. From such a perspective, it is incorrect to say evolution has "nothing at all" to do with the existence of god(s).

Heck, even this aside I would disagree with evolution having "nothing at all" to do with the existence of god(s). As someone who sees the gods everywhere, evolution itself is a divine force. That makes me a creationist who would not interpret evolution as a threat against the gods, but I can still understand how those with other theological beliefs would see it that way.

But if you believed that your "God" was directly responsible for gravity, then the theory of Gravity would be a threat to your religion. If you believe that the power of "God" is what kept the sun shining then the theory of nuclear fusion would be an attack on your beliefs. If you believed that disease was punishment for sin then germ theory would be insulting to you. And I could go on.

I take your point here, but still Evolution is no more Atheistic than any other scientific theory.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

There are sadly plenty of people misusing evolution as a tool to attack religon (or at least Christianity) just as there are indeed relious people attacking atheism via evolution. They're all idiots.

Well, to be honest, the truth of evolution by natural selection does demonstrate a very telling lack of foresight and agency in the biosphere.

So goodbye Creator God, hello God of New Age Affirmations.

-Nato

 

[johnhanks]

It is very frustrating reading post after post in thread after thread where people claim to be arguing against the theory of evolution when it is very apparent that they have no idea what the theory of evolution is, and in fact that they have an issue with is atheism.

The theory of evolution has nothing at all to do with whether of not there is a "God", or "Gods". The vast majority of the scientific communities agrees that the theory of evolution is accurate well established scientific theory. It is not just the Atheists. Evolution is no more atheistic than any other scientific theory. So why do people insist on conflating evolution with atheism?

If you want to attack atheism go ahead, have at it. But to try to attack atheism by denying evolution is ridiculous. It is like trying to attack your enemy by banging your own head against a wall. You are not going to harm your enemy and you certainly are not going to harm the wall.

All they are doing is denying themselves a full understanding and appreciation of the world we live in.

For me it is frustrating, but for them it is an absolute tragedy.

For hardline literalist christians the identification of "evolutionism" with atheism is pretty well inevitable, since it must involve rejection of Genesis 1 and anyone who doesn't believe every word of the bible to be literally true is a de facto atheist.

From the other side of the fence, the only necessary association between the two is the one pointed out by Dawkins - that evolution makes atheism an intellectually defensible position.

 

[fallingblood]

I think it has to do with some atheist using evolution to try to disprove religion or God. It does happen, especially on various forums where one has more aggressive atheist who hate everything religion. So, in some instances, it is seen as a tool of atheism and thus as a part of atheism.

I do think that the majority of people do see the difference though. More and more religious people are accepting evolution, and I think that will go up drastically in the next couple of decades (when older teachers who were taught creationism are replaced by more informed individuals).

 

[Willamena]

But if you believed that your "God" was directly responsible for gravity, then the theory of Gravity would be a threat to your religion. If you believe that the power of "God" is what kept the sun shining then the theory of nuclear fusion would be an attack on your beliefs. If you believed that disease was punishment for sin then germ theory would be insulting to you. And I could go on.

I take your point here, but still Evolution is no more Atheistic than any other scientific theory.

The Theory of Gravity or of nuclear fusion is a description of a force or the interaction of bodies, no different than delineating a recipe. How could that be a threat to a pantheistic view?

 

[fantome profane]

Well, to be honest, the truth of evolution by natural selection does demonstrate a very telling lack of foresight and agency in the biosphere.

So goodbye Creator God, hello God of New Age Affirmations.

-Nato

There is a very fine line to be drawn here, but an extremely important one. You can look at the science and use that to form, support or justify your metaphysical position. But you cannot allow your metaphysical position to interfere with the science. There are those who look at the understanding of science that the theory of Evolution has given us and feel that it supports their faith in "God". That is fine, either way. As long as you don't cross that line.

 

[fantome profane]

The Theory of Gravity or of nuclear fusion is a description of a force or the interaction of bodies, no different than delineating a recipe. How could that be a threat to a pantheistic view?

I didn't say it was a threat to a pantheistic view.

 

[Willamena]

I didn't say it was a threat to a pantheistic view.

My bad.

 

[fantome profane]

My bad.

No, actually on re-reading what I wrote I see where you are coming from. Let me change "would" to "could".

If you believed that your "God" was directly responsible for gravity, then the theory of Gravity could be a threat to your religion. If you believe that the power of "God" is what kept the sun shining then the theory of nuclear fusion could be an attack on your beliefs. If you believed that disease was punishment for sin then germ theory could be insulting to you.