Why Care Whether God Exists Or Not?

[Dirty Penguin]

You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in God. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, he may judge you on your merits coupled with your commitments, and not just on whether or not you believed in him.

:bow:

That's all I gotta say.....

For now....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Whether God exists or not matters because, if He does, we best find out who He is and what He wants because He has absolute power over us.

Then who cares if he exist or not. If this omnipotent (whatever) has "absolute power over us" then we will in no doubt submit to its will...regardless of what we do...

If He doesn't, then it doesn't matter.

I agree

The fact is, there's no way to prove it one way or the other.

I agree

The universe is evidence of His existence

You can't have it both ways. You can't make the statement that there is no way to prove God exist if you believ you have evidence to show that he does.

The universe is not a proof that God exist. The universe (whatever the universe is)....from our limited knowledge of space is only a proof that whatever we discover exist. Everything else is theory or belief......

But it's true; why would an Atheist care? Except for the irrational belief that God doesn't exist, they've nothing to care about at all.

The problem with this statement is that you, not being and Athiest, presume to speak for athiest. To assume athiest don't care about anything is a misconception on your part.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

No. More reasonable.

An Atheist says that Christians are bigoted fascists, he's basing it on a personal opinion that has no foundation because, as in Atheist, everything is relative.

Have you actually researched the history of christianity? One should say "not all christians are bigots" but there are a lot of them. Are they the only religion or people on the planet who are? HECK NO....!!!

One can pickup any newspaper and find multiple stories of christian bigots around the world. Will they be the only ones in the paper who are bigots? ......NOPE.....

Christians aren't the only ones who believe in "one" god but not one time from the start of this thread did an athiest put any particular way of life on display...... You were the first to point the finger and single another's way of life out. Now who's the bigot???????

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The fact that the Bible was written over a period of 1600 years, with 40 different human authors, with references in the NT to books from the OT that date back centuries... and no contradictions. The relationship between ancient Judaism and Christianity, the perfect interlocking of those two faiths, fulfilled prophecies -that's what makes the Bible infallible to many no matter which version they use.

I think the consistency of the Bible (though how consistent it actually is is a point for another debate, IMO), might have something to do with people throwing away what they felt was apocryphal, which would include books considered to be inconsistent with "core" Christianity. Also, the assumption of lack of contradiction causes things to be interpreted in a certain way, does it not? If a New Testament passage has two possible meanings but one contradicts something in the Old Testament, you choose the non-contradictory one because of your initial assumption that the Bible is not self-contradictory... to some extent, the claim is self-fulfilling.

They would write the prophecies before they were fulfilled, though. One, for example, predicted (therefore before it occurred) that Athens would be burned by the Persians, but that their fleet would defeat the Persians in turn, and save Athens in the end. It came to pass.

I worry somewhat about reading too much into the accounts of things like the Oracle at Delphi and wars in ancient Greece; intuitively, I'm not completely sure that the authors didn't take literary licence with the events for the sake of storytelling. I'm not sure that the sources that reach us of these events in ancient Greece aren't more similar to something like a Shakespearian historical play than a proper account of what happened.

What I mean is that, whether we evolved or not, it doesn’t stand to reason that we’d universally, and consistently develop faiths, and cling to them.

Why not?

The world that produced most religions is quite unlike the world today. For most of human history, we had to do things that were essential to our survival that, in retrospect, we didn't have good reasons for.

If you had two tribes in ancient Israel, and one kept kosher and the other didn't, the kosher tribe would likely end up healthier. It doesn't matter so much that they thought "we must avoid pork because this pleases God" instead of "we must avoid pork because it's difficult for us to store and cook thoroughly without avoiding bacterial diseases"... it works.

Without the benefit of modern scientific knowledge, the idea that disease is caused by tiny living things that are smaller than they can see is as fantastic as the idea that they're caused by witchcraft, invisible demons or sin. Still, the techniques we know today for public health and medicine work regardless of whether you know why they work.

If you have two communities and one of them comes to believe in a set of commandments purportedly from God that includes the instruction, "stop killing each other and try to work together", they'll stop killing each other and try to work together. They get the benefit of this action whether their God exists or not.

If our ancestors hadn't come up with rationales for the things they needed to survive, even baseless ones, we would not be here.

To me this seems like apples and oranges. Pottery is one thing; religion is another. Pottery developed as a necessary link in development of civilization.

Not all cultures developed pottery. AFAIK, the South Pacific Islanders didn't, for example.

Religion developed with the same sort of consistency, though they differed greatly. If God doesn’t exist, why is God necessary? Why do we have religion if there’s no God? Why did it develop the same as the rest of the traits of a culture if it doesn’t exist.

First off, those differences say to me that the root cause of religious belief is not a single deity who wants all people to behave in the same way.

As for the "why", I think I gave you the reasoning for my beliefs on that subject above.

How is the existence of God the least likely possibility?

God is supernatural - God, by definition, is not God unless He can violate at least some of the known laws of the physical universe. The existence of God is an impossibility unless you're prepared to throw away all evidence we have of how the universe works. Once you do that, you have carte blanche to come up with whatever explanation you want. And if we don't have to be limited by causality, rationality and physical laws, we might as well say that the Universe came into being when it was laid out of the world's smallest chicken next Tuesday.

Once you bend the rules to allow God as the explanation for anything, there's no possible reason you can give to say that God must be the explanation for that thing.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So I don't believe in multiple, literal gods: I believe in one God, and that rebelious angels created by Him have taken on the role of false gods who are obviously acknowledged by the Bible, are worshiped by some of us, but have no power of themselves: they operate at God's sufferance.

Which I've always found interesting...That this omnipotent. omniscient.....want us to praise and worship him only, forbids us from walking the path of evil, punishing us if we do transgress....etc...etc...etc.....

And yet your response leads one to believe that it is his fault (for lack of a better word) we do these things. Your response says he allows these demons to do what they do. If he is the sole controller, all knowing, all powerful....then why set up his creation to fail? I mean, isn't it said in the bible God is the creator of evil? And if he is the all knowing creator then why create us this way and get ****** when we do exactly as he created us to do......I mean it's not like he didn't already know the things we were going to do eons before we did them.......

 

[Smoke]

Which I've always found interesting...That this omnipotent. omniscient.....want us to praise and worship him only

If there is a god, he has scrupulously refrained from giving us any indication that he exists. So if he exists, the decent thing is to respect his privacy.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I don't.

I believe the Bible is infallible.

2 Samual 8:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

1 Cronicles 18:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them an hundred chariots.

seven hundred or seven thousand?????
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Samual 10:18
And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.
1 Chronicles 19:18
But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.

seven hundred or seven thousands?????............horseman or footman?????
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 kings 24:8
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.


2 Chronicles 36:9
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of God

eight years old or eighteen?????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 Kings 8:26
Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 22:2
Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.

twenty two or forty two?????
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 Samuel 24:1
And again the anger of the lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

God or Satan?????
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Samuel 6:23
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.


2 Samuel 21:8
But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

Kids or no kids?????
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Infallible
1.absolutely trustworthy or sure: an infallible rule. 2.unfailing in effectiveness or operation; certain: an infallible remedy. 3.not fallible; exempt from liability to error, as persons, their judgment, or pronouncements: an infallible principle. 4.Roman Catholic Church. immune from fallacy or liability to error in expounding matters of faith or morals by virtue of the promise made by Christ to the Church. –noun 5.an infallible person or thing.

Infallible......????? I think not....

This is just a taste of what is in the book. There are plenty more......

 

[Luke_17:2]

DreGod07;

Before I respond point by point, I'm going to let you know that a couple of those "errors" are not even "errors" according to the people who make them up.

 

[McBell]

DreGod07;

Before I respond point by point, I'm going to let you know that a couple of those "errors" are not even "errors" according to the people who make them up.

A rather sloppy attempt at poisoning the well.

 

[gnostic]

The universe is evidence of His existence

Sorry, :sorry1: but I don't see his "MADE IN HEAVEN" brand anywhere.

 

[Peace]

Why Care Whether God Exists Or Not?

If one wants to lead a happy content life, s/he must know the source of life.

Peace

 

[Luke_17:2]

Anyone who wants to respond to this please PM me because this is not on topic.

2 Samual 8:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

1 Cronicles 18:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them an hundred chariots.

seven hundred or seven thousand?????

2 Samual 10:18
And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.
1 Chronicles 19:18
But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.

seven hundred or seven thousands?????............horseman or footman?????

I'll answer these two together.

For the first, the answer is that David slew 40,000 footmen, AND 40,000 horsemen.

The second one is quite simple. David destroyed 700 chariots, and 7000 men that fought IN chariots. That's so simple it barely deserves recognition. .

2 kings 24:8

Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 36:9
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of God

eight years old or eighteen?

Both. His mother ruled 10 years as a sort of regent. He was king for ten years, but only reigned for 3 months.

2 Kings 8:26

Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 22:2
Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.

twenty two or forty two?????

Both.

He reigned, was forced to abdicate, and reigned again. If you'll notice, it doesn't record Ahaziah's death until several chapters later.

It's an interesting genealogy. If you noticed, Athaliah, Ahaziah's mother, was the daughter of Omri, king of Israel, and therefore sister of Ahab, king of Israel. She married Joram, king of Judah, and eventually ended up nearly destroying the seed royal with the exception of one prince: Amaziah.

Very interesting time. I really enjoy reading I Samuel-II Chronicles. It's one part of the Bible that's down to earth. Showing a human geopolitical unit, its problems, chronicles, and politics.

2 Samuel 24:1

And again the anger of the lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

God or Satan?????

This is another pseudo-contradiction.

God did. To understand this, read the Book of Job. God tested Job by allowing the devil to take everything that he owned. The same principle with Israel here. God allowed Satan to tempt David.

2 Samuel 6:23
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

2 Samuel 21:8
But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

Kids or no kids?????

This one is another one of those peudo-contradictions I mentioned before.

She didn't have children. She raised the children of Adriel. It says it right there in red and white.

Infallible
1.absolutely trustworthy or sure: an infallible rule. 2.unfailing in effectiveness or operation; certain: an infallible remedy. 3.not fallible; exempt from liability to error, as persons, their judgment, or pronouncements: an infallible principle. 4.Roman Catholic Church. immune from fallacy or liability to error in expounding matters of faith or morals by virtue of the promise made by Christ to the Church. –noun 5.an infallible person or thing.

Infallible......????? I think not....

This is just a taste of what is in the book. There are plenty more......

Actually, I think I just blew those contradictions out of the water.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Anyone who wants to respond to this please PM me because this is not on topic.

<yawn>Correct - it pretty much fall in the category of useless drivel.</yawn>

 

[Ozzie]

Is there any reason we should care whether God exists or not? If so, why? If not, why not?

I don't know and I don't care.

I do care whether God exists or not for others because that affects me.

 

[Ozzie]

I intend to go off---be prepared!

I have an umbrella Krakatoa. Be ye forthcoming!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Actually, I think I just blew those contradictions out of the water.

I highly doubt you did. What you did was interpret the information given....

But again....we'll agree to disagree here.

But I will say you maybe correct on that last one though.....(she didn't have kids).....

 

[davidishere]

Is there any reason we should care whether God exists or not? If so, why? If not, why not?

Of course we should care. Especially if you think that god exists; to know how to worship him. As humans, we have an overwhelmingly large curiosity, and to calm that desire to understand, we concern ourselves with things such as science and the arts, to extend beyond out barriers. And if your not curious, your not human...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Of course we should care. Especially if you think that god exists; to know how to worship him.

Now there's a primitive attitude, not to mention worrisome. After all, it's getting harder and harder to come by burnt offerings these days.

 

[McBell]

For the first, the answer is that David slew 40,000 footmen, AND 40,000 horsemen.

2 Samual 8:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

1 Cronicles 18:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them an hundred chariots.
​

Huh?
You did not even address the numbers in question (seven thousand and seven hundred).
Please tell me that this is a mistype.

Both. His mother ruled 10 years as a sort of regent. He was king for ten years, but only reigned for 3 months.

You forgot the address the point, which is at what age did he begin his reign, eight or eighteen?

He reigned, was forced to abdicate, and reigned again. If you'll notice, it doesn't record Ahaziah's death until several chapters later.

That makes sense.
Of course, I have not actually looked at the verses in context yet either.

It's an interesting genealogy. If you noticed, Athaliah, Ahaziah's mother, was the daughter of Omri, king of Israel, and therefore sister of Ahab, king of Israel. She married Joram, king of Judah, and eventually ended up nearly destroying the seed royal with the exception of one prince: Amaziah.

Interesting as this is, what does it have to do with anything?

God did. To understand this, read the Book of Job. God tested Job by allowing the devil to take everything that he owned. The same principle with Israel here. God allowed Satan to tempt David.

Please present the verse(s) that support this theory.

She didn't have children. She raised the children of Adriel. It says it right there in red and white.

I tend to agree with this explanation.

Actually, I think I just blew those contradictions out of the water.

First one looks like you mixed a few things up and will needs to fix it.
At least I hope that is what happened.
Otherwise the first response is nothing but irrelevant rambling.

I will concede that the second one is a possible plausible explanation.

The third one did not address the point at all.

As it stands, it appears that the fourth one may be a reasonable explanation, but I will first needs to research the context.

The fifth one seriously looks like you took the easy way out.
However more research on context will be needed before I can confirm or discount it.

I tend to agree with the sixth explanation, based upon my current understanding of the story.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

2 Samual 8:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

1 Cronicles 18:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them an hundred chariots.
​

Huh?
You did not even address the numbers in question (seven thousand and seven hundred).
Please tell me that this is a mistype.



You forgot the address the point, which is at what age did he begin his reign, eight or eighteen?


That makes sense.
Of course, I have not actually looked at the verses in context yet either.


Interesting as this is, what does it have to do with anything?


Please present the verse(s) that support this theory.


I tend to agree with this explanation.


First one looks like you mixed a few things up and will needs to fix it.
At least I hope that is what happened.
Otherwise the first response is nothing but irrelevant rambling.

I will concede that the second one is a possible plausible explanation.

The third one did not address the point at all.

As it stands, it appears that the fourth one may be a reasonable explanation, but I will first needs to research the context.

The fifth one seriously looks like you took the easy way out.
However more research on context will be needed before I can confirm or discount it.

I tend to agree with the sixth explanation, based upon my current understanding of the story.

I agree with you here. This is why I responded to him the way I did. I responded to the statement that he "believes the bible is infalable"...... Sometimes I take issue with statements like that. It gives me the impression that one is learned in all of the languages of the bible and its context and has comitted the scriptures to memory. Even that unto itself is not enough because one will only be able to render their interpertation of said scripture. I don't think that these are hard questions to ask when one makes such a statement. As I said, this is just a taste of the inconsistency. The book of the Chronicles, the book of the Samuels, the book of the Kings and all the way through the NT. These books were written by different people some anonynous and at different times as well as in different places. They were originally oral stories so I don't expect them to be spot on with each other which, TO ME :sorry1:, says that they are not "inspired by God".....Again, that's just me..... Seven hundred/seven thousand...God/Satan...yeah I find it interesting that some try to spin it to mean something beyond what it actually says....but when people truly believe it to be the word of God...what can you say?????? Their minds are already made up....