Why condemn a whole people if only a few do wrong?

[Spirit of Light]

Of course... but if two people both belong to, say, the same political party, this tells me something about their views.

What should the fact that someone is a Muslim tell me if I know nothing else about them?

How they dress, how they speak, act or think according to Islamic teaching.
That is what a muslim is.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Would I be allowed to push a point across on that part of the forum? Like if someone doesnt answer my point can I double down on the question without the thread being moved?

I can't directly find it. I don't know about a sub-forum that is neither debate not discussion. But since it is interview, maybe that answer is that you can ask additional questions, but not debate the answers. But I really don't know.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But i do wonder why religious belief should form someones view of everyone who hold that belief.

Obviously, because adherence to said belief potentially tells us a lot about that person's opinions as it pertains to said beliefs.

For example, if you tell me that you are a Jehova's Witness, that tells me a LOT about you.

- it tells me that you distrust medical science
- it tells me you deny modern biology
- etc

So yes, the beliefs of a person does tell us a lot about said person, as it pertains to those beliefs.

If you tell me that you follow religion X, there really is no issue with me then assuming that you adhere to the ideology of X. And with the many different denominations in mind, I can go for the lowest common denominator between them all and assume that you hold those beliefs.

So obviously those beliefs will shape my view about you, at least concerning those aspects about you which pertains to those beliefs.

If one group from a religion do wrong does not make every person in that religion is evil or bad.

Sure. But that's not quite the same as your previous sentence.

Also, it kind of depends on the "wrong".

But not just in RF but on the street, to say One believe in islam more or less condem this person as evil or bad. It is just not true.

Off course it's not true.
And I don't see how it's true in any way here on RF.
Are there people here that say a muslim is evil merely by virtue of being muslim?

It could be off course, but I haven't encountered such posts I think.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How they dress, how they speak, act or think according to Islamic teaching.
That is what a muslim is.

What you're describing is a basis for prejudice. If you were right and all Muslims really did:

- dress in a certain way,
- speak in a certain way,
- act in a certain way, and
- think in a certain way

... then we would be justified in assuming that any given Muslim will dress, speak, act, and think in the same way.

I thought that the whole point of this thread was that you think these sorts of prejudicial assumptions are wrong.

Did you change your mind?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What should the fact that someone is a Muslim tell me if I know nothing else about them?

That eating pork is bad.
That being gay is immoral.
...

And if you meet a muslim that disagrees with these, then that muslim is straying from the general islamic theology.

In the same way, when a person identifies with a certain political party, you can make assumptions about that person's views regarding specific points to be aligned with the views of said party.
And if that person does not share those views, then that means that on those points, that person strays from the general political outlook of said political party.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That eating pork is bad.
That being gay is immoral.
...

I know plenty of Muslims who don't eat pork themselves. I'm not sure if I know any who say that eating pork is bad.

And I know one Muslim who actively campaigns for LGBTQ rights. I'm not sure I can think of any - in real life, anyhow - who I've heard say that being gay is immoral.

And if you meet a muslim that disagrees with these, then that muslim is straying from the general islamic theology.

... which would indicate to me that "general Islamic theology" - whatever that is - is no guarantee of a Muslim's thoughts or actions.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How they dress, how they speak, act or think according to Islamic teaching. That is what a muslim is.

I disagree.
Here's is a celebrity girl from Belgium, who's a very outspoken muslim:

She recently got married and had a baby with a muslim. In an interview, she literally said that she couldn't be together with a non-muslim.

So the dress code goes from the above all the way down to this:

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I know plenty of Muslims who don't eat pork themselves. I'm not sure if I know any who say that eating pork is bad.

And I know one Muslim who actively campaigns for LGBTQ rights. I'm not sure I can think of any - in real life, anyhow - who I've heard say that being gay is immoral.

... which would indicate to me that "general Islamic theology" - whatever that is - is no guarantee of a Muslim's thoughts or actions.

I agree, don't get me wrong.

But what I'm saying is that, barring other information, we can make some assumptions based on the label of "muslim" or "christian", just like we can with the labels of "communist", "democrat", "capitalist", etc.

Will we be correct in those assumptions 100% of the time? Heck no.
We can only assume in terms of trends.

And I don't think I have to really explain to you that in general, the chance of a random muslim being actively involved in defending LGBT rights, is rather slim, wouldn't you say?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Obviously, because adherence to said belief potentially tells us a lot about that person's opinions as it pertains to said beliefs.

For example, if you tell me that you are a Jehova's Witness, that tells me a LOT about you.

- it tells me that you distrust medical science
- it tells me you deny modern biology
- etc

So yes, the beliefs of a person does tell us a lot about said person, as it pertains to those beliefs.

If you tell me that you follow religion X, there really is no issue with me then assuming that you adhere to the ideology of X. And with the many different denominations in mind, I can go for the lowest common denominator between them all and assume that you hold those beliefs.

So obviously those beliefs will shape my view about you, at least concerning those aspects about you which pertains to those beliefs.




Sure. But that's not quite the same as your previous sentence.

Also, it kind of depends on the "wrong".



Off course it's not true.
And I don't see how it's true in any way here on RF.
Are there people here that say a muslim is evil merely by virtue of being muslim?

It could be off course, but I haven't encountered such posts I think.

I can not tell you what you should think of me, it's not important.
It's is kind of clear what a few people in RF think about Islam and have stronger opinion about what a muslim should and should not do, Even with no practice of islam themself.

I dont say every person have to agree with Islam og muslims. But the way example sufism practice islam is different than sunni and shia. But we follow the same God and prophet

 

[Spirit of Light]

What you're describing is a basis for prejudice. If you were right and all Muslims really did:

- dress in a certain way,
- speak in a certain way,
- act in a certain way, and
- think in a certain way

... then we would be justified in assuming that any given Muslim will dress, speak, act, and think in the same way.

I thought that the whole point of this thread was that you think these sorts of prejudicial assumptions are wrong.

Did you change your mind?

No of course i did not change my mind. I was answering what a muslim are and what is a part of islam.
Those who do not follow islam way of life are not truly deep in to the spiritual of Islam, only stronge in belief in Allah and the prophet, but does not practice islam as the prophet did

 

[Spirit of Light]

That eating pork is bad.
That being gay is immoral.
...

And if you meet a muslim that disagrees with these, then that muslim is straying from the general islamic theology.

In the same way, when a person identifies with a certain political party, you can make assumptions about that person's views regarding specific points to be aligned with the views of said party.
And if that person does not share those views, then that means that on those points, that person strays from the general political outlook of said political party.

Is that all you get from what it is to be a muslim?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I can not tell you what you should think of me, it's not important.
It's is kind of clear what a few people in RF think about Islam and have stronger opinion about what a muslim should and should not do, Even with no practice of islam themself.

I dont say every person have to agree with Islam og muslims. But the way example sufism practice islam is different than sunni and shia. But we follow the same God and prophet

Sure, but none of that addresses the main point of my post.

That point being that when someone outs him/herself as an adherent of religion X, then that can potentially tell us quite a lot about said person's opinions about a wide variety of subjects, as we can assume that they'ld be in line with the religious ideology they adhere too.

And obviously that is going to shape our view of said person. For better or worse.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Is that all you get from what it is to be a muslim?

What do you think is being meant with the "..."?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Sure, but none of that addresses the main point of my post.

That point being that when someone outs him/herself as an adherent of religion X, then that can potentially tell us quite a lot about said person's opinions about a wide variety of subjects, as we can assume that they'ld be in line with the religious ideology they adhere too.

And obviously that is going to shape our view of said person. For better or worse.

If you meet a muslim who truly understand the teaching and live by it, yes of course you will be able to tell by his righterous way of living.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No of course i did not change my mind. I was answering what a muslim are and what is a part of islam.
Those who do not follow islam way of life are not truly deep in to the spiritual of Islam, only stronge in belief in Allah and the prophet, but does not practice islam as the prophet did

Lately you seem to have a habit of being kind of big into the whole "not a true muslim" thingy.

Just an observation.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What do you think is being meant with the "..."?

I mean, if all you get from what islam is that it's bad to eat pork and wrong to be gay, then you missed mostly everything about what islam is.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Lately you seem to have a habit of being kind of big into the whole "not a true muslim" thingy.

Just an observation.

Because it is a part of the things my teacher and i discussing, what does it truly meant to be a muslim

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If you meet a muslim who truly understand the teaching and live by it, yes of course you will be able to tell by his righterous way of living.

That is not at all what I said or was even talking about.

Do you do this on purpose?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I mean, if all you get from what islam is that it's bad to eat pork and wrong to be gay, then you missed mostly everything about what islam is.

Do you not understand what "..." means?

 

[Spirit of Light]

That is not at all what I said or was even talking about.

Do you do this on purpose?

No, from what you write, it did look like it was all you got from islam. My mistake