Why condemn a whole people if only a few do wrong?

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because it is a part of the things my teacher and i discussing, what does it truly meant to be a muslim

So who died and made him the judge?
This sounds kind of hypocritical, as you used to be kind of big in not judging others and only focussing "on your own spiritual path", as you liked to say.

I notice a difference in your postings concerning this.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So who died and made him the judge?
This sounds kind of hypocritical, as you used to be kind of big in not judging others and only focussing "on your own spiritual path", as you liked to say.

I notice a difference in your postings concerning this.

He is my teacher, i trust him 100% in how he guides me.

I do not judge others, i have started to realize what it actually means to be a muslim, and belief in it self is not enough to go to Heaven.

The only one i truly judge is my self.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

He is my teacher, i trust him 100% in how he guides me.

I do not judge others, i have started to realize what it actually means to be a muslim, and belief in it self is not enough to go to Heaven.

The only one i truly judge is my self.

Dude... when you say every other post about people that they aren't "true muslims", then you are literally judging them.

How about that picture I posted from that girl from belgium.
Would you say she isn't a "true muslim" based on how she dresses?

 

[Bird123]

A very classical issue that occure not only in RF but in daily life on earth, is that people judge everyone from a group if one of them do wrong.

Example if one muslim do wrong, every muslim must be evil.

If one Christian do wrong Christianity must be evil?

How about if a car mechanic do an evil action, example murder or rape, does every car mechanics become evil human beings?

So why Do you judge differently if a bad person come from a religious background?

Mankind values so many petty things like Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing and Hate. Whether one is taught to value these things or choose them for oneself does not matter. Nothing good comes out of them. Instead, one should concentrate on solving the Real Problems.

People are emotional people. Instead of leading with the reason half, many lead with the emotional half. This is never a good idea. When one is hurt, one tends to pass the hurt along without regard to whom it might hurt. It's truly a lesson we all need to learn.

If one hates, then one returns hate, a circle of hate goes round and round building with each pass. What is really accomplished? It's no more than being lost in a sea of emotion. It's never fun being lost.

We can all point others in the right direction regardless of any religion. They might not listen because each must live and understand all sides in order to make the Best choices, however one can place knowledge and direction in their lives so when they are ready, they will see the best direction to go.

Sure, Religions are not all accurate or right. I have found none that really Understand God at all. Religion is a catalyst that brings so many of mankind's problems to the surface so they can be dealt with. There is learning and growing with all interaction.

Never worry. Just point them in the right direction. Given enough lessons, lives and learning, we will all end up making the very Best choices for all. In time, we will all learn to Love Unconditionally, trying to do what is Best for the other. In time, we will all realize this will be the best for ourselves as well.

Like I said, It is best to lead with our reason half. It is always better to Think then Act rather than simply React. Still in this time-based causal universe find out for yourself. Choose freely then Discover those Best answers when those Results Return.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Dude... when you say every other post about people that they aren't "true muslims", then you are literally judging them.

How about that picture I posted from that girl from belgium.
Would you say she isn't a "true muslim" based on how she dresses?

Well, true to me or true objectively are not the same. They, these 2 truths, are different truths.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Dude... when you say every other post about people that they aren't "true muslims", then you are literally judging them.

I dont speak from my opinion i speak from what the teaching actually say a muslim should do or not do to please Allah.

If someone call them self a muslim but eat pork, just a little bit, according to the teaching he is not a muslim because it's haram to eat pork.
If a person ignore the teaching but say he is muslim because his family are muslims by tradition, according to islam he is not a muslim.

Not my word, Allah' s teaching

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Mankind values so many petty things like Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing and Hate. Whether one is taught to value these things or choose them for oneself does not matter. Nothing good comes out of them. Instead, one should concentrate on solving the Real Problems.

People are emotional people. Instead of leading with the reason half, many lead with the emotional half. This is never a good idea. When one is hurt, one tends to pass the hurt along without regard to whom it might hurt. It's truly a lesson we all need to learn.

If one hates, then one returns hate, a circle of hate goes round and round building with each pass. What is really accomplished? It's no more than being lost in a sea of emotion. It's never fun being lost.

We can all point others in the right direction regardless of any religion. They might not listen because each must live and understand all sides in order to make the Best choices, however one can place knowledge and direction in their lives so when they are ready, they will see the best direction to go.

Sure, Religions are not all accurate or right. I have found none that really Understand God at all. Religion is a catalyst that brings so many of mankind's problems to the surface so they can be dealt with. There is learning and growing with all interaction.

Never worry. Just point them in the right direction. Given enough lessons, lives and learning, we will all end up making the very Best choices for all. In time, we will all learn to Love Unconditionally, trying to do what is Best for the other. In time, we will all realize this will be the best for ourselves as well.

Like I said, It is best to lead with our reason half. It is always better to Think then Act rather than simply React. Still in this time-based causal universe find out for yourself. Choose freely then Discover those Best answers when those Results Return.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

To me it is best to combine reason and feelings, but that is me and I accept that you do it differently. But I don't accept that you speak for me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I dont speak from my opinion i speak from what the teaching actually say a muslim should do or not do to please Allah.

If someone call them self a muslim but eat pork, just a little bit, according to the teaching he is not a muslim because it's haram to eat pork.
If a person ignore the teaching but say he is muslim because his family are muslims by tradition, according to islam he is not a muslim.

Not my word, Allah' s teaching

No, it is your interpretation of what is the one true God. But that is not the only interpretation. But if you claim that your interpretation is true for all humans, then you are judging them.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, it is your interpretation of what is the one true God. But that is not the only interpretation. But if you claim that your interpretation is true for all humans, then you are judging them.

My understanding is only how i understand the teaching. I do wrong every single day, so according to Allah i am not a true muslim yet.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I dont speak from my opinion i speak from what the teaching actually say a muslim should do or not do to please Allah.

What you don't seem to realize, is that what you think / believe the teaching says IS AN OPINION.
Because it relies on interpretation of the text, which is a subjective process.

There is no way to "objectively test" the meaning of the text. So whatever you take away from it is going to be subjective. ie, opinion.

This is why I told you a few pages back that what supposedly "true islam" is, is of no interest to me. Because you'll tell me A and some other muslim will tell me B. And both will be expressing their opinions about the "teaching".

If someone call them self a muslim but eat pork, just a little bit, according to the teaching he is not a muslim because it's haram to eat pork.
If a person ignore the teaching but say he is muslim because his family are muslims by tradition, according to islam he is not a muslim.

Not my word, Allah' s teaching

So is the girl in the picture in your opinion "not a true muslim", based on how she dresses?
Remember, you said previously that you can recognize a "true muslim" based on how they dress, among other things.

If it's relevant to you: she doesn't eat pork, she doesn't drink alcohol, she prays, she reads the quran and she attends mosque.

How about the group of women in the second picture?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What you don't seem to realize, is that what you think / believe the teaching says IS AN OPINION.
Because it relies on interpretation of the text, which is a subjective process.

There is no way to "objectively test" the meaning of the text. So whatever you take away from it is going to be subjective. ie, opinion.

This is why I told you a few pages back that what supposedly "true islam" is, is of no interest to me. Because you'll tell me A and some other muslim will tell me B. And both will be expressing their opinions about the "teaching".



So is the girl in the picture in your opinion "not a true muslim", based on how she dresses?
Remember, you said previously that you can recognize a "true muslim" based on how they dress.

If she do not dress according to the teaching by Allah she has more to understand before she would be a true muslim

But people can do what they want, but then they must face Allah on the last day. And i think those questions are not easy to answer. So better to strive to be as good we can when we have the chance as humans.

Remember, i do not speak of non muslims, i dont know how they will be judged by Allah (god)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If she do not dress according to the teaching by Allah she has more to understand before she would be a true muslim

So does she dress according to the teaching?

The picture is right there.

How about the group of women in the second picture?
Do they dress according to the teaching?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My understanding is only how i understand the teaching. I do wrong every single day, so according to Allah i am not a true muslim yet.

I will try to explain my God to you. I don't know God, so I don't use God to judge other humans. That I leave to God. I act as a human based on that I try to do as I understand as not God God's work. But I accept that is my beliefs and says nothing about God, because they are my beliefs.
In effect I believe in a non-revealed God. You don't. You believe that God has revealed God self to humans. The problem is that you are not alone in what you believe what God has revealed. There are many interpretations.

Now since I have found no way to figure out which interpretation is true, I have stopped doing that.

Peace.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree, don't get me wrong.

But what I'm saying is that, barring other information, we can make some assumptions based on the label of "muslim" or "christian", just like we can with the labels of "communist", "democrat", "capitalist", etc.

Will we be correct in those assumptions 100% of the time? Heck no.
We can only assume in terms of trends.

I'm not talking about 100%; I'm talking about "correct enough to be useful."

Your two examples strike me as false, considering the Muslims I meet in real life.

And I don't think I have to really explain to you that in general, the chance of a random muslim being actively involved in defending LGBT rights, is rather slim, wouldn't you say?

It happens often enough, especially in my peer group (Canadian, left-leaning, around my age).

Many Muslims in my peer group are the children of immigrants; many belong to visible minorities; all of them are members of a minority religion. They've generally experienced discrimination themselves and have empathy for other groups who also face discrimination.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No of course i did not change my mind. I was answering what a muslim are and what is a part of islam.
Those who do not follow islam way of life are not truly deep in to the spiritual of Islam, only stronge in belief in Allah and the prophet, but does not practice islam as the prophet did

So you're saying that Muslims you disagree with aren't Muslims at all?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My understanding is only how i understand the teaching. I do wrong every single day, so according to Allah i am not a true muslim yet.

Assuming you agree that not a single person exists that never does wrong, is it therefor safe to assume that in your opinion, there are no "true muslims" in this world?

If that's the case, then your entire case is pointless and meritless.

And it also kind of raises some questions when your objection to muslim terrorists is that they aren't "true muslims", since at that point, pretty much every muslim isn't a "true muslim" by the very definition you yourself have provided.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I will try to explain my God to you. I don't know God, so I don't use God to judge other humans. That I leave to God. I act as a human based on that I try to do as I understand as not God God's work. But I accept that is my beliefs and says nothing about God, because they are my beliefs.
In effect I believe in a non-revealed God. You don't. You believe that God has revealed God self to humans. The problem is that you are not alone in what you believe what God has revealed. There are many interpretations.

Now since I have found no way to figure out which interpretation is true, I have stopped doing that.

Peace.

I do believe in the islamic teaching yes, but do I personally know what Allah truly is?

Of course not. I have a belief that what the quran telling me about Allah is true.

I dont ask others to believe as i do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My understanding is only how i understand the teaching. I do wrong every single day, so according to Allah i am not a true muslim yet.

Wait - you think that a person has to be perfect ("according to Allah") to be a true Muslim?

Do you understand that this is not how the term "Muslim" is typically used?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Assuming you agree that not a single person exists that never does wrong, is it therefor safe to assume that in your opinion, there are no "true muslims" in this world?

If that's the case, then your entire case is pointless and meritless.

And it also kind of raises some questions when your objection to muslim terrorists is that they aren't "true muslims", since at that point, pretty much every muslim isn't a "true muslim" by the very definition you yourself have provided.

The prophet Muhammad was

 

[Spirit of Light]

Wait - you think that a person has to be perfect ("according to Allah") to be a true Muslim?

Do you understand that this is not how the term "Muslim" is typically used?

I do not speak of how typically used. I speak of sufi teaching about what it takes to be a muslim. It is really difficult.