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Why Did God Create Humans ?

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
If you are not thankful that you exist

Thankful to what?

"Gravity" that it was kind enough to make gas collapse into stars and later on these stars into super nova to create heavy elements that are then spewed out into space to become part of 2nd / 3rd generation star systems allowing life to originate and eventually coallesce into my body?

I don't see the point of being "thankful" to deterministic processes that are just operating according to the laws of nature without any kind of intent or purpose.
Being "thankful towards something" is only meaningfull to me when that something is a sentient thing that consciously and intentfully did something that benefited me in some way.

- and that you exist because others exist and are grateful and happy that you and others exist - I hope you are doing okay. :confused:
Why would I not be doing okay?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't see the point of being "thankful" to deterministic processes that are just operating according to the laws of nature without any kind of intent or purpose.
Being "thankful towards something" is only meaningfull to me when that something is a sentient thing that consciously and intentfully did something that benefited me in some way.
That's... genuinely sad. It... is forcing me to reassess my assumption that atheists are never actually joyless ingrates in ways that are.... it... I don't even... I am really not liking this at all. :confused:

Why would I not be doing okay?
Because not having any joy or gratitude or smiles in one's life usually means one is not doing okay and having a bad time. And being unable to express joy and thanks at the everyday wonder of a sunrise is sad. Very, very sad. :confused:
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Let us assume for a moment that the Bible is accurate and that the biblical God exists.

According to the Bible, God is omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), omniscient (Psalm 139:1–6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). And according to the Bible, he created everything on earth within six days, and he saw that all he had made was very good (Genesis 1:1–31). Well, wait a minute. If he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then why would he later regret creating not only humanity but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air (Genesis 6:6-7)? Wouldn't he have already known about the wickedness of the human race if he were omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent (Genesis 6:5)? If the Bible is correct about him being all-powerful, all-knowing, and ever-present, then I believe it stands to reason that he already knew that Adam and Eve would disobey him before he created anything, and yet he went forward with creating them despite foreknowing the outcome. Furthermore, wouldn't an all-powerful and all-knowing God know better than to repopulate the planet with the same flawed humans he wiped out in a worldwide flood because he was royally pi**ed about how they turned out, despite foreknowing the outcome? And yet, according to the Bible, God punishes Adam and Eve for their disobedience to him and also curses the rest of humanity with a sinful nature, despite the fact that the rest of humanity had absolutely no control over the behavior of Adam and Eve, which God foresaw would happen before he began creating anything. Apparently, creating mankind wasn't God's only regret because the Bible contains several other verses that mention his other regrets in addition to creating humanity, all of the animals, and all of the birds (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10).
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
those who are called tzaddikim

They're not people who claim to know kabalah...

How deep was Rebbe Menachem M Schneerson's knowledge of Kabbalah?

I don't know. The Rebbe taught and wrote about Chasiddus, not Kabalah.


have read bits of the Zohar, Baal Shem Tov, Rashi, Rav DovBer Pinson, Rebbe Menachem M Schneerson

Zohar is kabalah. Baal Shem Tov is Chassidus. Rashi is orthodox Judaism... not at all kabalistic. DovBer Pinson? I think I may have watched a video by him. Maybe he mentioned kabalah? I don't remember. The Rebbe, I have never read anything by him where he even mentions kabalah.

Not being a student, I rely on expositions such as this one The Origins of Kabbalah along with quotes from the Zohar, Baal Shem Tov and others. No Jewish source I've read has said anything about a Greek origin. I believe them.

That's true. There isn't a greek origin to autthentic jewish mysticism. It's the occult-qabalah with a "q" bastardized version which comes from the greek.

I have no clue if this book is good or not. But I'm about half way through a book by Daniel Matt called the Essential Kabalah and it's 50% trash.

Quite a bit of what I've read can be found in Eastern sources as well

There's a zohar on that.... it explains exactly what you're talking about.

I'll see if I can find an english translation for you to read online. The bottom line is... it's not really jewish mysticism and it leads one astray, per Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai. If I recall. I need to check. If you respect the Zohar, then, the Zohar says to stay away from those eastern traditions.

If there is a person claiming to know kabalah, the "kabalah centre"? Michael Berg, maybe? That makes claims that kabalah is some how in harmony with eastern traditions... then, they do NOT know the zohar. Or... they know it, but, they're ignoring it, or hiding it.

HaShem is concealed from our minds but revealed in our hearts." - Zohar and Kabir said something similar.

Bring the actual quotes if you want to discuss them. I do not recall anything like that in the Zohar.

Rashi and Meher Baba (in different words)

Rashi is not a kabalist. And tthe quote you brought is about tzedakah. Yes charity is a universal value.

“There are four types of men in this world: 1. The man who knows, and knows that he knows; he is wise, so consult him. 2. The man who knows, but doesn't know that he knows; help him not forget what he knows. 3. The man who knows not, and knows that he knows not; teach him. 4. Finally, there is the man who knows not but pretends that he knows; he is a fool, so avoid him.” Solomon Ibn Gabirol and Confucius

We'd need to look at both quotes. Just name dropping doesn't say much.

Rabbi Rami Shapiro

Who's that?


"All souls must undergo transmigration and the souls of men revolve like a stone which is thrown from a sling, so many turns before the final release...Only those who have not completed their perfection must suffer the wheel of rebirth by being reborn into another human body." The Zohar, Buddhism and Meher Baba

I think you're missing an important point about the sling. We'd need to look at the whole quote to be sure, but, when this idea is taught its nothing like buddhism, and I expect nothing like meher baba as well.

Again, we need to read tthe whole quotes, not just cherry picked snippets.


A coda: I see that a sincere student who finds a real tzaddik is as much on the right path as someone who has a real murshid, guru and so forth. There are many paths to Truth.

A tzaddik is not a kabalist. You don't really know what kabalah is, do you?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
That's... genuinely sad.

??
Why?

It... is forcing me to reassess my assumption that atheists are never actually joyless ingrates in ways that are.... it... I don't even... I am really not liking this at all. :confused:

What makes you think I'm joyless?


Because not having any joy or gratitude or smiles in one's life usually means one is not doing okay and having a bad time.

Dude..... Why do you think i'm joyless or without smiles or gratidude?
This is quite arrogant of you.

It just makes no sense to me to have any feelings towards deterministic processes that don't care one way or the other about anything, and in fact don't even have the ability to care being as they aren't sentient / conscious / whatever...

The idea of being "thankful to / for gravity" makes no sense to me at all.
The idea of being "thankful that the sun exists" makes no sense at all to me either.
The sun just is. Yes, it feeds the earth with workable energy. It also gives us skin cancer. The doesn't care one way or the other. The sun doesn't do "care" full stop. It just is. It burns because it ignited under the weight of its own gravity. It doesn't burn for a "purpose". It doesn't burn for us to be alive any more then it burns for us to get skin cancer.

I'm thankful to my parents for having raised me and taken care of me.
I'm thankful to my friends and family.
I'm thankful to my mentors in school and my drum teacher.
I'm thankful for a lot of things.

And being unable to express joy and thanks at the everyday wonder of a sunrise is sad. Very, very sad. :confused:
You make no sense to me. And you are drawing very bizar conclusions.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Why Did God Create Humans ?

Does one mean from God, Jesus, then he created nothing, as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah never claimed as such in literal/physical sense, please, right?? The truthful GD is neither physical nor even spiritual as everything physical and even the spirit are GD's creation, please, right?

Regards
 
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