Why did God tempt Adam and Eve?

[shunyadragon]

The only fault Adam had is listening to Eve, before Eve came, Adam may haved walk by that tree many times before Eve came to be.
But after Eve came, then Adam listening to her, then Adam fail.

Therefore they were fallible humans with faults as you describe.

But as you say, Yes both are held responsible for their sin, in disobeying God.

Therefore because of Adam's and Eve's sin in disobeying God, death has pass upon all men. This being all mankind of course.

The problem remains as you describe.Putting the burden on Adam and Eve fro the 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall' is unjustified from the perspective of an omnipotent omnipresent Creator. It was based on mythology and an effort to explain from the human perspective the faults of Creation.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Therefore they were fallible humans with faults as you describe.



The problem remains as you describe.Putting the burden on Adam and Eve fro the 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall' is unjustified from the perspective of an omnipotent omnipresent Creator. It was based on mythology and an effort to explain from the human perspective the faults of Creation.

The first ( Original Sin ) against God, came by Satan ( Lucifer ) .

There was no fault with the creation, for after each day, God called everything good.

The fault first was with Eve for listening to Satan, and then Adam for listening to Eve.

 

[Kenny]

You still have failed to provide a response to the real problem. Two fallible humans who apparently sinned and are held responsible (inherited guilt) for all the suffering, death, violence including in the animal kingdom since under the rouse of 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall.'

I still don't understand why that is a problem. The "problem" was solved by Jesus. Scripturally, we are responsible for our own sins. Yes, the ground was cursed because of the sin and his sin did put the Serpent (Satan-the adversary) in charge of this world system which caused death and its fruit, suffering and violence.

So what is the problem that you see?

 

[Twilight Hue]

In reality the story of Adam and Eve is mythology and God did not tempt Adam and Eve,

Well, god did let that evil talking serpent roam around the place.

 

[shunyadragon]

All evil comes from Satan ( Lucifer ) it was Satan in his sin rebellion against God. That lead one third of the angels in Rebellion against God.
This was way back in the first earth age, before this earth age came to be.

Maybe, but it remains that Adam and Eve are held responsible for the 'Fall' and 'Original Sin,' and not Satan.

Also . . .

From: Original sin - Wikipedia

Protestant reformation
Martin Luther (1483–1546) asserted that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. The second article in Lutheranism's Augsburg Confession presents its doctrine of original sin in summary form:

It is also taught among us that since the fall of Adam all men who are born according to the course of nature are conceived and born in sin. That is, all men are full of evil lust and inclinations from their mothers' wombs and are unable by nature to have true fear of God and true faith in God. Moreover, this inborn sickness and hereditary sin is truly sin and condemns to the eternal wrath of God all those who are not born again through Baptism and the Holy Spirit. Rejected in this connection are the Pelagians and others who deny that original sin is sin, for they hold that natural man is made righteous by his own powers, thus disparaging the sufferings and merit of Christ.

Luther, however, also agreed with the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (that Mary was conceived free from original sin) by saying:

[Mary] is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her.

Protestant Reformer John Calvin (1509–1564) developed a systematic theology of Augustinian Protestantism by interpretation of Augustine of Hippo's notion of original sin. Calvin believed that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. This inherently sinful nature (the basis for the Calvinisticdoctrine of "total depravity") results in a complete alienation from God and the total inability of humans to achieve reconciliation with God based on their own abilities. Not only do individuals inherit a sinful nature due to Adam's fall, but since he was the federal head and representative of the human race, all whom he represented inherit the guilt of his sin by imputation. Redemption by Jesus Christ is the only remedy.

John Calvin defined original sin in his Institutes of the Christian Religion as follows:

Original sin, therefore, seems to be a hereditary depravity and corruption of our nature, diffused into all parts of the soul, which first makes us liable to God's wrath, then also brings forth in us those works which Scripture calls "works of the flesh" (Gal 5:19). And that is properly what Paul often calls sin. The works that come forth from it – such as adulteries, fornications, thefts, hatreds, murders, carousings – he accordingly calls "fruits of sin" (Gal 5:19–21), although they are also commonly called "sins" in Scripture, and even by Paul himself."

 

[DavidFirth]

Maybe, but it remains that Adam and Eve are held responsible for the 'Fall' and 'Original Sin,' and not Satan.

Also . . .

From: Original sin - Wikipedia

Protestant reformation
Martin Luther (1483–1546) asserted that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. The second article in Lutheranism's Augsburg Confession presents its doctrine of original sin in summary form:

It is also taught among us that since the fall of Adam all men who are born according to the course of nature are conceived and born in sin. That is, all men are full of evil lust and inclinations from their mothers' wombs and are unable by nature to have true fear of God and true faith in God. Moreover, this inborn sickness and hereditary sin is truly sin and condemns to the eternal wrath of God all those who are not born again through Baptism and the Holy Spirit. Rejected in this connection are the Pelagians and others who deny that original sin is sin, for they hold that natural man is made righteous by his own powers, thus disparaging the sufferings and merit of Christ.

Luther, however, also agreed with the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (that Mary was conceived free from original sin) by saying:

[Mary] is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her.

Protestant Reformer John Calvin (1509–1564) developed a systematic theology of Augustinian Protestantism by interpretation of Augustine of Hippo's notion of original sin. Calvin believed that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. This inherently sinful nature (the basis for the Calvinisticdoctrine of "total depravity") results in a complete alienation from God and the total inability of humans to achieve reconciliation with God based on their own abilities. Not only do individuals inherit a sinful nature due to Adam's fall, but since he was the federal head and representative of the human race, all whom he represented inherit the guilt of his sin by imputation. Redemption by Jesus Christ is the only remedy.

John Calvin defined original sin in his Institutes of the Christian Religion as follows:

Original sin, therefore, seems to be a hereditary depravity and corruption of our nature, diffused into all parts of the soul, which first makes us liable to God's wrath, then also brings forth in us those works which Scripture calls "works of the flesh" (Gal 5:19). And that is properly what Paul often calls sin. The works that come forth from it – such as adulteries, fornications, thefts, hatreds, murders, carousings – he accordingly calls "fruits of sin" (Gal 5:19–21), although they are also commonly called "sins" in Scripture, and even by Paul himself."

I like Calvin's definition although I don't think we really need one. The Bible is quite clear, as Calvin states, on its own.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Maybe, but it remains that Adam and Eve are held responsible for the 'Fall' and 'Original Sin,' and not Satan.

Also . . .

From: Original sin - Wikipedia

Protestant reformation
Martin Luther (1483–1546) asserted that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. The second article in Lutheranism's Augsburg Confession presents its doctrine of original sin in summary form:

It is also taught among us that since the fall of Adam all men who are born according to the course of nature are conceived and born in sin. That is, all men are full of evil lust and inclinations from their mothers' wombs and are unable by nature to have true fear of God and true faith in God. Moreover, this inborn sickness and hereditary sin is truly sin and condemns to the eternal wrath of God all those who are not born again through Baptism and the Holy Spirit. Rejected in this connection are the Pelagians and others who deny that original sin is sin, for they hold that natural man is made righteous by his own powers, thus disparaging the sufferings and merit of Christ.

Luther, however, also agreed with the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (that Mary was conceived free from original sin) by saying:

[Mary] is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her.

Protestant Reformer John Calvin (1509–1564) developed a systematic theology of Augustinian Protestantism by interpretation of Augustine of Hippo's notion of original sin. Calvin believed that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. This inherently sinful nature (the basis for the Calvinisticdoctrine of "total depravity") results in a complete alienation from God and the total inability of humans to achieve reconciliation with God based on their own abilities. Not only do individuals inherit a sinful nature due to Adam's fall, but since he was the federal head and representative of the human race, all whom he represented inherit the guilt of his sin by imputation. Redemption by Jesus Christ is the only remedy.

John Calvin defined original sin in his Institutes of the Christian Religion as follows:

Original sin, therefore, seems to be a hereditary depravity and corruption of our nature, diffused into all parts of the soul, which first makes us liable to God's wrath, then also brings forth in us those works which Scripture calls "works of the flesh" (Gal 5:19). And that is properly what Paul often calls sin. The works that come forth from it – such as adulteries, fornications, thefts, hatreds, murders, carousings – he accordingly calls "fruits of sin" (Gal 5:19–21), although they are also commonly called "sins" in Scripture, and even by Paul himself."

While Adam and Eve can be held for the fall.
But not for the Original Sin.
Satan was the very first to commit sin against God.
By Satan tempting Eve, got Eve and then Adam to commit sin against God.

But it was first Satan who committed the Original Sin against God.

 

[shunyadragon]

I still don't understand why that is a problem. The "problem" was solved by Jesus.

Not good enough, the suffering, death, and pain still exist as described in Genesis, Even in the doctrine of the Roman Church the 'Fall' is not totally resolved. I have cited both the Roman Church and Protestant beliefs that NO, Jesus Christ did not resolve the problem, except some consideration for absolving Original Sin in the individual.

Scripturally, we are responsible for our own sins. Yes, the ground was cursed because of the sin and his sin did put the Serpent (Satan-the adversary) in charge of this world system which caused death and its fruit, suffering and violence.

Pretty much all the churches and for this discussion they clearly distinguish between the 'Sins' of Adam and Eve from the sins committed by humans after the 'Fall.' Please stop the obfuscation conflating the two types of sin in this discussion.

So what is the problem that you see?

Again and again. the first and the biggy is the sins of two humans is the cause of the 'inherited guilt,' pain, suffering and death for thousands of years if not longer before the advent of Jesus Christ, and NO Jesus Christ did not totally resolve the suffering, pain and death of the original sin

 

[shunyadragon]

While Adam and Eve can be held for the fall.
But not for the Original Sin.
Satan was the very first to commit sin against God.
By Satan tempting Eve, got Eve and then Adam to commit sin against God.

But it was first Satan who committed the Original Sin against God.

You may believe this, but individuals can believe everything they want. I cited both the beliefs of the Roman Church and Protestant reformers, and no Adam and Eve are held responsible for both the 'Fall and the 'Original Sin.'

 

[DavidFirth]

You may believe this, but individuals can believe everything they want. I cited both the beliefs of the Roman Church and Protestant reformers, and no Adam and Eve are held responsible for both the 'Fall and the 'Original Sin.'

But who was punished by God the most? It wasn't Adam or Eve but the devil who would be bruised on the head.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You may believe this, but individuals can believe everything they want. I cited both the beliefs of the Roman Church and Protestant reformers, and no Adam and Eve are held responsible for both the 'Fall and the 'Original Sin.'

Maybe to you the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant reformers stand above God's word, but not with me.

The word of God stand over and above any of man's teachings and doctrines. No matter who they are.

You see I do not follow the teachings of man's. God's word stands above all of man's teachings.

I only follow God's word and what God has establish in his word.

But if you wish to try and establish man's teachings above God's word, you are being deceived in doing so.

This is exactly what Adam and Eve did, took Satan's word above what God told them. And your doing the same in establishing man's teachings over God word.

 

[shunyadragon]

Maybe to you the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant reformers stand above God's word, but not with me.

The word of God stand over and above any of man's teachings and doctrines. No matter who they are.

You see I do not follow the teachings of man's. God's word stands above all of man's teachings.

I only follow God's word and what God has establish in his word.

But if you wish to try and establish man's teachings above God's word, you are being deceived in doing so.

This is exactly what Adam and Eve did, took Satan's word above what God told them. And your doing the same in establishing man's teachings over God word.

I acknowledge that this is your view, but I cannot debate every individual argument like that of @KenS. The issue is what the churches believe in their doctrine and their writings, and therefore teach to their followers. It is not my view, it is the specific references that document these beliefs.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I acknowledge that this is your view, but I cannot debate every individual argument like that of @KenS. The issue is what the churches believe in their doctrine and their writings, and therefore teach to their followers. It is not my view, it is the specific references that document these beliefs.

You said
(The issue is what the churches believe in their doctrine and their writings, and therefore teach to their followers)

You see I am not one of those who follow man made doctrines and teachings of a church.
You see I don't belong to a church.alot people that do go to church sets there with their bible closed and are spoon fed.

This is why so many people who call themselves Christians have no idea what the bible will say or what the bible confirm's.
All because they would rather set there and follow what their Pastor's will say, rather than open up the bible and see exactly what God's word actually does say.

I myself have come across such Christians when upon speaking with them, it doesn't take much figuring out, that they don't have a clue what the bible Actually does say and confirm's.
This is all due to the fact that these christians listen to what their pastor will say, and then go about trying to incorporate it into the bible.

It doesn't take much to get them all confused, seeing they have no clue about what the Bible Support's and what the Bible doesn't Support's.

Thank you for your time, it's been a pleasure in talking with you.

 

[shunyadragon]

Maybe to you the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant reformers stand above God's word, but not with me.

The word of God stand over and above any of man's teachings and doctrines. No matter who they are.

You see I do not follow the teachings of man's. God's word stands above all of man's teachings.

I only follow God's word and what God has establish in his word.

But if you wish to try and establish man's teachings above God's word, you are being deceived in doing so.

This is exactly what Adam and Eve did, took Satan's word above what God told them. And your doing the same in establishing man's teachings over God word.

Again, I acknowledge your view, but it is unreasonable for you to dismiss the view of the Church Fathers, Roman Church Doctrine, and all the Protestant Reformers as not knowing the Bible and what it teaches,

Your view is close to that of Eastern Orthodoxy, but needs clarification.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Again, I acknowledge your view, but it is unreasonable for you to dismiss the view of the Church Fathers, Roman Church Doctrine, and all the Protestant Reformers as not knowing the Bible and what it teaches,

Your view is close to that of Eastern Orthodoxy, but needs clarification.

I dismiss the view the church fathers and those Protestant reformers they had no idea what the Bible says nor what it confirm's.
Let's take those Protestant Reformers fathers, They say that the Mother of Harlots in the book of Revelation 17 As being the Roman Catholic Church.

Unto which is not true but a false teaching of man's. The mother of Harlots of Revelation 17, has nothing at all to do with the Roman Catholic Church.

This is just another example of the Falsehoods of man's teachings and doctrines.

Just because the Roman Catholic Church holds the same colors as the Mother of Harlots has in Revelation 17, does not constitute her as being the Mother of Harlots.
Even Christ Jesus has said in the book of John 7:24--"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"

This is exactly what the Protestant Reformers fathers done, falsely Judging the Roman Catholic Church by her appearance, all because the Roman Catholic Church holds the same colors as the Mother of Harlots in Revelation 17:4. Thereby falsely accusing the Roman Catholic Church.

The Protestant Reformers fathers, falsely judge the Roman Catholic Church.

That now many Christian churches are doing the same in falsely accusing the Roman Catholic Church As being the Mother of Harlots.

Christ Jesus for warned not to judge by the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

The Protestant Reformers fathers have falsely accusing the Roman Catholic Church. So are alot of Christian churches.

This being just another example of man's false teachings and doctrines. To Judge falsely by the appearance.

 

[shunyadragon]

I dismiss the view the church fathers and those Protestant reformers they had no idea what the Bible says nor what it confirm's.
Let's take those Protestant Reformers fathers, They say that the Mother of Harlots in the book of Revelation 17 As being the Roman Catholic Church.

Unto which is not true but a false teaching of man's. The mother of Harlots of Revelation 17, has nothing at all to do with the Roman Catholic Church.

This is just another example of the Falsehoods of man's teachings and doctrines.

Just because the Roman Catholic Church holds the same colors as the Mother of Harlots has in Revelation 17, does not constitute her as being the Mother of Harlots.
Even Christ Jesus has said in the book of John 7:24--"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"

This is exactly what the Protestant Reformers fathers done, falsely Judging the Roman Catholic Church by her appearance, all because the Roman Catholic Church holds the same colors as the Mother of Harlots in Revelation 17:4. Thereby falsely accusing the Roman Catholic Church.

The Protestant Reformers fathers, falsely judge the Roman Catholic Church.

That now many Christian churches are doing the same in falsely accusing the Roman Catholic Church As being the Mother of Harlots.

Christ Jesus for warned not to judge by the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

The Protestant Reformers fathers have falsely accusing the Roman Catholic Church. So are alot of Christian churches.

This being just another example of man's false teachings and doctrines. To Judge falsely by the appearance.

What church do you attend and believe in their doctrine.

 

[shunyadragon]

IMO, I think I can answer these questions with one word: "allegory".

The importance of the Fall narrative is not did these these events occur as written but what are "the meanings behind the words", which is a common Jewish phrase when dealing with interpretations.

So, in brief here's my take: if we sin by disobeying God, we're screwed, [later in Torah] but there's repentance and forgiveness.

If you follow the thread you will notice the discomfort with the 'inherited guilt,' 'Original Sin,' and the 'Fall' as literally described and believed by the Church Fathers, Protestant Reformers, and the Catechism doctrine of the Roman Church. Believers like @KenS and @Faithofchristian hedge on the doctrine and belief of the traditional churches and describe their own view. and alternate interpretation. Your description of these beliefs being interpreted as "allegory" or interpreted symbolically are common among individuals, but unfortunately the doctrines of the traditional churches are written in stone and will not change.

 

[shunyadragon]

But who was punished by God the most? It wasn't Adam or Eve but the devil who would be bruised on the head.

It was neither of the above. It was all the hundreds if not thousands of generations of humanity since that suffered from the 'inherited guilt' of Adam and Eve.

Satan (the Devil?) will get over the bruise on the head.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What church do you attend and believe in their doctrine.

As I have said that I do not belong to any church, thereby I do not accept any teachings or doctrines of man's.

Even Jesus condemn the teachings and doctrines of man's in Matthew 15:7-9.

"You Hypocrites, Well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" Matthew 15:7-9.

 

[syo]

Why give Adam and Eve a test he knows they will fail , and then punish everyone for it?

he wants us to be worthy of the kingdom of heaven.