Why did Israeli Jews support South African apartheid?

[Jedster]

That's somewhat of a generalization, but true nonetheless. Still ...

Tzedek, Tzedek Tirdof – צֶדֶק צֶדֶק תִּרְדּף
Justice, Justice You Will Pursue
(Deuteronomy 16:20)​

So I looked up Deutoromy 16: and see the whole sentence says:

20Justice, justice shall you pursue, that you may live and possess the land the Lord, your God, is giving you. כצֶ֥דֶק צֶ֖דֶק תִּרְדֹּ֑ף לְמַ֤עַן תִּֽחְיֶה֙ וְיָֽרַשְׁתָּ֣ אֶת־הָאָ֔רֶץ אֲשֶׁר־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ נֹתֵ֥ן לָֽךְ:

So the Israelis must be doing something right.

 

[Sakeenah]

Oh noes a country detains and deports illegal immigrants. What has the world come to?
Pretty soon there won't be a single illegal immigrant in Israel thanks to the deal with Rwanda.




But they won't. Funny isn't it?
.

Please..you know that the report wasn't about 'just detaining and deporting illegal immigrants'

It doesn't suprise me that out of the entire Amnesty report you decided to only comment on one issue( the refugees issue).
Is there a reason why you ignore the rest of the report?
let me summarize it for you..the report states that the Israeli authority
-continues to promote illegal settlements in the West Bank, including by attempting to retroactively “legalize” settlements built on private Palestinian land.
- severely restricted Palestinians freedom of movement.
- Israeli forces continues to blockade the Gaza Strip, subjecting its population of 1.9 million to collective punishment.
- demolish homes of Palestinians in the West Bank and of Bedouin villagers in Israel’s Negev/Naqab region, forcibly evicting residents.
-The authorities imprisoned conscientious objectors to military service
- Israeli soldiers, police and Israel Security Agency (ISA) officers subjected Palestinian detainees, including children, to torture and other ill-treatment with impunity, particularly on arrest and during interrogation.
The UN Committee against Torture conducted its fifth periodic review of Israel, criticizing continued reports of torture and other ill-treatment, impunity, and the authorities’ failure to proscribe torture as a crime under the law

- The Israeli authorities used a range of measures to target human rights defenders, in both Israel and the OPT, who criticized Israel’s continuing occupation of the Palestinian territories.

- More than two years after the end of the 2014 Gaza-Israel conflict, in which some 1,460 Palestinian civilians were killed, many in evidently unlawful attacks including war crimes, the Israeli authorities had indicted only three soldiers for looting and obstructing an investigation

This goes on and on..So my question is do you think these actions by the Israeli authority are acceptable. If not should the Israeli authority be hold accountable?

 

[Sakeenah]

So I looked up Deutoromy 16: and see the whole sentence says:

20Justice, justice shall you pursue, that you may live and possess the land the Lord, your God, is giving you. כצֶ֥דֶק צֶ֖דֶק תִּרְדֹּ֑ף לְמַ֤עַן תִּֽחְיֶה֙ וְיָֽרַשְׁתָּ֣ אֶת־הָאָ֔רֶץ אֲשֶׁר־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ נֹתֵ֥ן לָֽךְ:

So the Israelis must be doing something right.

Ah okay..now it makes perfect sense. I mean why would Palestinians complain about their houses being demolished and land being taken away. They should pat the Israeli authority on the back.

 

[Jedster]

Ah okay..now it makes perfect sense. I mean why would Palestinians complain about their houses being demolished and land being taken away. They should pat the Israeli authority on the back.

Not sure what your comment has to do with my quote.
All I said was that the Israeli authorities must be doing something right as per the verse quoted.

Of course you immediately think of something you think is wrong.
II won't say any more because last time I expressed myself more fully, I was banned because 2 'long standing members' thought my posts were toxic, even though there were several anti_Jewish/Israeli posts much more toxic than my views
I was banned without any reason other than the emboldened text above. My mail here was blocked , so I was given no chance to 'appeal'.

A few months later, I received a letter of apology and invited back which obviously I eventually accepted and returned under a different name.
I came back with the intent of keeping away from ME discussions, but sometimes I just have to say something.

Peace

 

[Sakeenah]

Not sure what your comment has to do with my quote.
All I said was that the Israeli authorities must be doing something right as per the verse quoted.

Of course you immediately think of something you think is wrong.
II won't say any more because last time I expressed myself more fully, I was banned because 2 'long standing members' thought my posts were toxic, even though there were several anti_Jewish/Israeli posts much more toxic than my views
I was banned without any reason other than the emboldened text above. My mail here was blocked , so I was given no chance to 'appeal'.

A few months later, I received a letter of apology and invited back which obviously I eventually accepted and returned under a different name.
I came back with the intent of keeping away from ME discussions, but sometimes I just have to say something.

Peace

Maybe I misunderstood your post and my apologies for that. I just don't understand how people can ignore or justify injustice committed by governments .We probably disagree in regards to the Israeli government, but I don't think your posts are toxic and it's good to see you back on RF.

Salaam/Shalom

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Israel?
Supporting apartheid?

You don't say?

I am just saying

 

[rosends]

Supporting Israel was a mistake because it's a colonial occupation, not because we disagree with the economy they've got going.

So your question is not about Israel and apartheid, but just about Israel's existence? Do you have the same concerns about other countries at whom similar labels can be leveled?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So I looked up Deutoromy 16: and see the whole sentence says:

20Justice, justice shall you pursue, that you may live and possess the land the Lord, your God, is giving you. כצֶ֥דֶק צֶ֖דֶק תִּרְדֹּ֑ף לְמַ֤עַן תִּֽחְיֶה֙ וְיָֽרַשְׁתָּ֣ אֶת־הָאָ֔רֶץ אֲשֶׁר־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ נֹתֵ֥ן לָֽךְ:

So the Israelis must be doing something right.

That is just stupid at best and dishonest at worst. Where have I suggested that Israelis have done nothing right? The very fact that you have shifted the focus from Israel to Israelis suggests irresponsible thoughtlessness.

 

[rosends]

Which question? The rhetorical one in my first comment?
I was responding to Flankerl's proposition.

Your post 14 which doesn't seem to be in response to anything other than the OP's question.

 

[LuisDantas]

Israel is also good friends with India:

India sparks anger with 'Israel-style' settlement policy in disputed Kashmir

and Burma:

Israel 'sold millions of dollars of military equipment to Burma during ethnic cleansing of Rohingya Muslims'

Despite genocide claims against the Rohingya, Israel is selling arms to Burma

You realize a point would be useful in there?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I do believe that at one time the U.S. at least indirectly supported apartheid too. Different countries had a "come to Jesus" if I may use that phrase, at different times. Eventually a wrong was corrected.

The U.S. created Jim Crow my mom and grad father had to drink from a different water fountain.

 

[Jedster]

That is just stupid at best and dishonest at worst. Where have I suggested that Israelis have done nothing right? The very fact that you have shifted the focus from Israel to Israelis suggests irresponsible thoughtlessness.

I didn't shift any focus, I just wrote Israelis instead of Israel. maybe I am a poor linguist.

Israelis=Israel,no difference to me.

Where have I suggested that Israelis have done nothing right?

i just don't recall you ever saying anything nice about Israel.
That's the impression I have.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The U.S. created Jim Crow my mom and grad father had to drink from a different water fountain.

No no, that is just myth. The history of the U.S. is as white as .... oh my, that phrase does not work here so well.

 

[rosends]

I don't understand how you would draw that my first comment was about Israels existence.

My point was merely that Israel is an apartheid state. Why would they hold others to a higher standard?

You ask about supporting apartheid and then you explain that "supporting Israel was a mistake because it's a colonial occupation," so I'm trying to figure out which is your position.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Israelis=Israel,no difference to me.

And would you agree with ...

Americans=America, no difference to me​

... or is your sloppiness reserved for Jews and the Jewish state?

 

[Jedster]

And would you agree with ...

Americans=America, no difference to me​

... or is your sloppiness reserved for Jews and the Jewish state?

Yes, Americans do make up America.
Israelis make the Israeli state.

Well, forgive me, but you do seem to have the hump.

I tried having a conversation with you once before. I should have learnt.

Oh and I'll save you the trouble <yawn> ignore <yawn>

 

[Flankerl]

Please..you know that the report wasn't about 'just detaining and deporting illegal immigrants'

It doesn't suprise me that out of the entire Amnesty report you decided to only comment on one issue( the refugees issue).
Is there a reason why you ignore the rest of the report?

Why would I care about AI at all? They get bankrolled by the wonderful Arab world.

-continues to promote illegal settlements in the West Bank, including by attempting to retroactively “legalize” settlements built on private Palestinian land.

Ah yes all that private Palestinian land for which they never had any documents. Not even Ottoman ones.

- severely restricted Palestinians freedom of movement.

Abbas is free to surrender and stop the war any day.

- Israeli forces continues to blockade the Gaza Strip, subjecting its population of 1.9 million to collective punishment.

The people in the Gaza Strip who voted for Hamas are free to seek refuge with their Arab brothers in Egypt and use its border crossing.
Palestinians have no right to cross into Israel.
Btw just last week a covert Hamas operative was captured in Israel.

- demolish homes of Palestinians in the West Bank and of Bedouin villagers in Israel’s Negev/Naqab region, forcibly evicting residents.

And there are usually reasons for that.
If I build a shack somewhere sooner or later the state will demolish it too.

-The authorities imprisoned conscientious objectors to military service

Implying you care about Israeli Jews.

- Israeli soldiers, police and Israel Security Agency (ISA) officers subjected Palestinian detainees, including children, to torture and other ill-treatment with impunity, particularly on arrest and during interrogation.
The UN Committee against Torture conducted its fifth periodic review of Israel, criticizing continued reports of torture and other ill-treatment, impunity, and the authorities’ failure to proscribe torture as a crime under the law

Israeli prisons are such horrible places that Palestinian terrorists regularly acquire various school degrees there.
The vile Zionist regime pays for that btw.

- The Israeli authorities used a range of measures to target human rights defenders, in both Israel and the OPT, who criticized Israel’s continuing occupation of the Palestinian territories.

Ah yes those poor foreign NGOs who just have peace in their mind.

- More than two years after the end of the 2014 Gaza-Israel conflict, in which some 1,460 Palestinian civilians were killed, many in evidently unlawful attacks including war crimes, the Israeli authorities had indicted only three soldiers for looting and obstructing an investigation

Those numbers are from Hamas. Yes even the UN got its numbers from Hamas.
The people in Gaza are free to elect a more peaceful party next time to pursue a more peaceful way with Israel.

Oh wait they can't vote anymore.

This goes on and on..So my question is do you think these actions by the Israeli authority are acceptable. If not should the Israeli authority be hold accountable?

Call me when BDS and other NGOs target Morocco for its occupation of Western Sahara.

Perhaps then I'll care.

I just don't understand how people can ignore or justify injustice committed by governments

The Muslim world is worse. Far worse.
Yet Muslims only care about Israel.

Why should I care about hypocrites?

 

[Baroodi]

not only that. Jews financed the shameful slavery trade. all documented in history

 

[Nakosis]

I am curious of those of the Jewish faith who understand the effects of colonialism could support this atrocity. Now of course I went to a Jewish source to explain and although eloquently explained, several other sources explained otherwise.

Why Israel supported South Africa's apartheid regime

Initially, South Africa was one of the first to recognize Israel. I presume their support was just returning the favor. Though later Israel came out against apartheid.

Even though Israel was worried about some backlash they supported sanctions against SA any way.

 

[sun rise]

...
Salaam/Shalom

I appreciate the Salaam/Shalom comment. Sometimes family fights (between tho monotheistic religions in this case) are the worst. And this is especially true when the fight has gone on for much longer (in some eyes) than the modern State of Israel.

At this point "if you would have only done this", no matter which side, has gotten old for me. Everyone knows what the other should have done and when to have avoided the current mess. And "you're worse than we are" is also old to me.

The real question is "how do we generate enough good will on both sides to start finding a way out of the deep and smelly pit we're in". And that is probably the hardest problem the world is facing today. It would be nice if everyone would "stop digging" and making the problem worse by both rhetoric and actions. Even that is hard.