Why did Israeli Jews support South African apartheid?

[Flankerl]

Whataboutism is supposed to be a communist thing, feeling red?

I am still waiting on all those threads about all the bad things Islamic countries are doing.

They are going to be opened any day now. And remember, for each country a separate thread.


inb4 half of those derail into something about Israel

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh and I'll save you the trouble <yawn> ignore <yawn>

Just FYI: it's ...

<yawn> ignore </yawn>​

but thanks for the effort.

 

[Sakeenah]

@Epic Beard Man sorry for derailing your thread!

This will be my last post because there isn't much of a dialogue.
I personally don't think every person that speaks for the rights of Palestinians is a Hamas supporter, and not every person that speaks for the rights of Israelis is a anti-Arab Zionist.
It's important to find a middle ground in this discussion. Here are a few points that I think are important.

- Hamas rockets must stop. We should condemn Hamas violence,and their indiscriminate firing that puts civilians at risk. Yes Israeli forces have killed many civilians but two wrongs don't make a right.

- The conflict is a lot older than Hamas. The constant focus on Hamas as the reason for Israel’s self-described acts of self-defense is misleading.This position pretends we are talking about a recent conflict (about 27 years) and not a 65 year one. The Israeli governments actions against Palestine (specifically Gaza) goes back far before Hamas even existed. Any dialogue that ignores before 1987 is insincere and incomplete . Hamas is a symptom of this conflict, but not the root cause.

- Muslim leaders must take more ownership over their actions. Israel and Palestine must hold themselves accountable to justice otherwise peace is just a fantasy.

- Some say that Palestine is inherently anti-Semetic. This is untrue and Palestine’s historical actions before the creation of Israel prove this.

- The pro-Israel side say that the UN created Israel by deomcratic vote so they are there to stay. The reality is Israel has a point they are here to stay,and no amount of arguing or fighting will undo that. But a country born by the UN must live by the UN. Since Israel’s creation, the United Nations has passed at least 42 Resolutions against Israel for violating international law ( 17 were passed before Hamas existed).
Sad thing is that Israel has asked and the United States has agreed to veto all 42 of these UN Resolutions. Israel cannot have it both ways. It cannot on one hand claim legitimacy by citing the United Nations decision to create Israel, and then ignore UN enforcement to hold Israel accountable to international law. If UN decisions are invalid now, then they were invalid at Israel’s creation. And if UN decisions were valid upon Israel’s creation, they must also be valid now and Israel must maintain justice according to international law.

- There is no justification for civilian deaths. Any action by either side that ignores this principle is a violation of human rights and it only derails the peace process.

- Governments should be hold accountable for war crimes. Hamas firing rockets indiscriminately is a war crime. Israel’s collective punishment of all of Gaza is a war crime,Israel’s bombing of hospitals is a war crime.

Conclusion..Peace is only possible by ensuring the sanctity and dignity of all human life..Jewish, Muslim or the minority Christian Palestinian.
And Peace can't really exist without justice..this includes recognizing factual history.

 

[Sakeenah]

Call me when BDS and other NGOs target Morocco for its occupation of Western Sahara.

Perhaps then I'll care.




The Muslim world is worse. Far worse.
Yet Muslims only care about Israel.

Why should I care about hypocrites?

The fact that you are pointing at others when I ask you simple question about holding Israel accountable for their actions shows that I'm wasting my time.

I already said that Muslim countries that have committed injustice should be hold accountable so I have no idea why you keep repeating yourself.

I'm done with this thread..Shalom

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The fact that you are pointing at others when I ask you simple question about holding Israel accountable for their actions shows that I'm wasting my time.

Speaking truth to power is rarely a waste of time, my friend. Thank you for your input.

 

[Flankerl]

- Some say that Palestine is inherently anti-Semetic. This is untrue and Palestine’s historical actions before the creation of Israel prove this.

Holy crap who cares? They hate us now. Not just Israelis but Jews as a whole. Its on their TV channels 24/7.
They honour their "martyrs" by naming streets and schools after them.

And before 1948 we had the Massacre in Hebron.

But a country born by the UN must live by the UN.

Any textual references to that? I always thought independent countries are independent.

Israel’s bombing of hospitals is a war crime.

So about that
Red Crescent chief tells of Hamas betrayal while delivering aid in Gaza

Funny. Now added to the video evidence we even have the Red Crescent saying it.
And all it took was 3 years.

Next thing you know the UN will acknowledge that UN facilities in the Gaza strip were connected via tunnels by Hamas.
UNRWA Condemns Neutrality Violation in Gaza | UNRWA

Well would you look at that. Funny.


Fun fact: If hostilities originate from a hospital or some UN facility this area stops being off limit.
Just what it is.

The fact that you are pointing at others when I ask you simple question about holding Israel accountable for their actions shows that I'm wasting my time.

I already said that Muslim countries that have committed injustice should be hold accountable so I have no idea why you keep repeating yourself.

I am waiting most eagerly for all those threads about the heinous acts done by Islamic countries.
I am sure that these threads are just around the corner. In no way will they not exist.

And always remember Khaybar Khaybar ya yahoud...

 

[Debater Slayer]

I am waiting most eagerly for all those threads about the heinous acts done by Islamic countries.
I am sure that these threads are just around the corner. In no way will they not exist.

And always remember Khaybar Khaybar ya yahoud...

When it comes to their human rights records, both Israel and the majority of modern-day Islamic countries are reprehensible affronts to human decency. The finger-pointing in threads like this one seems comical to anyone who doesn't buy into the blindly partisan propaganda from either side.

 

[Flankerl]

And yet we only ever see these kind of threads about Israel.

How weird.

 

[Debater Slayer]

And yet we only ever see these kind of threads about Israel.

How weird.

I've seen a lot of threads during my time here criticizing Islamic countries' human rights abuses (and I've started a lot of them myself). What are you talking about?

There's definitely a partisan bent on the part of some Muslims when talking about Israel and overlooking Islamic countries' problems, but engaging in tu quoque is hardly a superior logical position here. Being apologetic toward Israel's transgressions while criticizing Islamic countries isn't much different from being biased toward the other side of the fence.

 

[columbus]

I've seen a lot of threads during my time here criticizing Islamic countries' human rights abuses (and I've started a lot of them myself). What are you talking about?

Name one Islamic country with as many criticizing threads on RF as Israel has. I don't think you can.
It won't be Egypt.
Or Saudi Arabia.
Or Turkey.
Or UAE.
Or Syria.
Or Pakistan.
Iran mainly gets criticized for trying to defend itself against the USA.
I don't think you can do it because Israel is constantly attacked while Islam, and the countries dominated by it, generally get a pass on human rights issues.
Apparently we can't expect any more out of a culture dominated by such primitive beliefs.
Tom

 

[columbus]

not only that. Jews financed the shameful slavery trade. all documented in history

That's pretty ridiculous dude.
Back when the Christians were buying slaves in Africa, Jewish people were severely limited in professional endeavors. One thing that they were allowed to do was banking and finance. So they financed. They financed anything that made a profit, from construction to wars to merchant ships.

Pretending that Christians buying Africans from Muslims and shipping them across the Atlantic to a life of slavery(along with all their descendants) aboard ships bought with Jewish financing makes Jews responsible for the human trafficking is ridiculous.

But I've come to expect that from people like you.
Tom