Why did WTC 7 Collapse from fire but not Grenfell Tower?

[David T]

In the context of 9/11, the term "conspiracy" typically applies to blaming the
government, the Jews, the landlord, etc for controlled demolition of the building.
The terrorists certainly conspired to do what they did, but this just isn't what we
debunkers are including when criticizing "conspiracy theories".

It's heat REV. High heat low heat between.the two.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Quote where I've used different meanings for the same word.

To what purpose?

 

[exchemist]

It was one explanation proposed by some of the theorists that a thermite paint was used. But works real good because it's nanothermite!

Yes. The temperature increase caused by this putative thermite paint has been estimated to be........wait for it.......8.8C.

Source here: The Thermite Paint Theory

 

[Nous]

To what purpose?

So that you can show that your accusations are true, rather than just your own baseless falsehoods.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, the peer-reviewed journal article did not say any such idiotic thing.

What peer reviewed article? I think we already explained that would be too generous of a term for the article that you supplied.
.
It would have taken on the order of 100 pounds of thermite to cut through just one beam: Here is what the NIST had to say about themite:

"To apply thermite to a large steel column, approximately 0.13 lb. of thermite would be needed to heat and melt each pound of steel. For a steel column that weighs approximately 1,000 lbs. per foot, at least 100 lbs. of thermite would need to be placed around the column, ignited, and remain in contact with the vertical steel surface as the thermite reaction took place. This is for one column; presumably, more than one column would have been prepared with thermite, if this approach were to be used.

It is unlikely that 100 lbs. of thermite, or more, could have been carried into WTC 7 and placed around columns without being detected, either prior to Sept. 11, 2001, or during that day.

Given the fires that were observed that day, and the demonstrated structural response to the fires, NIST does not believe that thermite or thermate was used to fail any columns in WTC 7.

Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC buildings, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard used for interior partitions."

 

[Subduction Zone]

So that you can show that your accusations are true, rather than just your own baseless falsehoods.

No, you would simply deny again. The one conspiracy that we know happened is that young men were recruited and trained how to fly planes. Those men then hijacked four planes and flew three of them into targets. That answers the questions about conspiracies and there is no need for any more.

 

[Nous]

It would have taken on the order of 100 pounds of thermite to cut through just one beam: Here is what the NIST had to say about themite:

NIST didn't test for residue of accelerants or explosive compounds.

"To apply thermite to a large steel column, approximately 0.13 lb. of thermite would be needed to heat and melt each pound of steel.

The thermitic material found in the WTC dust was nanothermite. Try again.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's on page 45. (It seems you can't copy the text.)

Page 45?

 

[Nous]

No, you would simply deny again. The one conspiracy that we know happened is that young men were recruited and trained how to fly planes. Those men then hijacked four planes and flew three of them into targets. That answers the questions about conspiracies and there is no need for any more.

There's no reason to be so desperate as to claim that anything I've said here is false or fallacious. You're the one who has stated multiple falsehoods on this thread about what NIST about the free fall, the fuel from generators, temperatures in the building. And you still haven't accounted for the few facts that I've noted here such as A36, the 105 feet of gravitational acceleration, the alleged self-crushing of the Twin Towers, etc.

(BTW, see my profile page if I'm not here tomorrow.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

NIST didn't test for residue of accelerants or explosive compounds.

The thermitic material found in the WTC dust was nanothermite. Try again.

And yet no one else found it.

Also I thought they found the supposed remains of it. Since most of the elements are very common finding the components of nanothermite would not be very cinvincing at all since they would be expected to be found whether banana thermite was used or not.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes. The temperature increase caused by this putative thermite paint has been estimated to be........wait for it.......8.8C.

Source here: The Thermite Paint Theory

8.8C seemed high to me, but then reading the assumptions,
the number is an ideal scenario upper limit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's no reason to be so desperate as to claim that anything I've said here is false or fallacious. You're the one who has stated multiple falsehoods on this thread about what NIST about the free fall, the fuel from generators, temperatures in the building. And you still haven't accounted for the few facts that I've noted here such as A36, the 105 feet of gravitational acceleration, the alleged self-crushing of the Twin Towers, etc.

(BTW, see my profile page if I'm not here tomorrow.)

No, I merely corrected your errors. Only part of the collapse was at "free fall and that was neither at the beginning nor at the end. It has been explained. The only error that I made was in regards to the fuel and I acknowledged that.

Read the reports, they do answer your questions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

8.8C seemed high to me, but then reading the assumptions,
the number is an ideal scenario upper limit.

When your opponent makes a ridiculous claim it is always best to use a "worst case scenario". Make every possible assumption for them and if the idea still fails spectacularly it leaves them little to complain about.

Nano-thermite or not it would still take a huge amount of the material to cut through a steel beam. And not just one, quite a few would have to go for the collapse that the conspiracy theorists are claiming happened.

 

[YmirGF]

When your opponent makes a ridiculous claim it is always best to use a "worst case scenario". Make every possible assumption for them and if the idea still fails spectacularly it leaves them little to complain about.

Nano-thermite or not it would still take a huge amount of the material to cut through a steel beam. And not just one, quite a few would have to go for the collapse that the conspiracy theorists are claiming happened.

I still say that Trump did it.

 

[Revoltingest]

When your opponent makes a ridiculous claim it is always best to use a "worst case scenario". Make every possible assumption for them and if the idea still fails spectacularly it leaves them little to complain about.

Nano-thermite or not it would still take a huge amount of the material to cut through a steel beam. And not just one, quite a few would have to go for the collapse that the conspiracy theorists are claiming happened.

Let's see what's involved in using thermite to heat steel hot enuf to weld a very short section of rail, which is similar enuf in cross section to mimic skyscraper structural elements. "Nano-thermite" paint wouldn't even warm it up.

Trivia....
The hammer being used is called an "engineer's hammer".

When used for cutting (not welding), less is required.
But it's still far far more concentrated than spread out paint.
Here is a video demonstrating this...& it's from (apparently)
a demolition conspiracy supporter.

 

[exchemist]

And yet no one else found it.

Also I thought they found the supposed remains of it. Since most of the elements are very common finding the components of nanothermite would not be very cinvincing at all since they would be expected to be found whether banana thermite was used or not.

It is perhaps just worth pointing out - for those readers with more than a couple of brain cells to rub together - that nanothermite generates exactly the same amount of heat as regular thermite. The only difference is the particle size, which increases the rate of reaction. However the enthalpy of reaction (the heat release) is just the same, as the ingredients are the same. So the temperature increase calculation remains the same.

 

[exchemist]

8.8C seemed high to me, but then reading the assumptions,
the number is an ideal scenario upper limit.

Yes that's right, the estimates are as generous as possible, to forestall an argument that they have underestimated the effect. So the conclusion is really < 8.8C.

 

[Nous]

And yet no one else found it.

Maybe that's because no one else tested the debris for explosive or incendiary residue.

Since most of the elements are very common finding the components of nanothermite would not be very cinvincing at all since they would be expected to be found whether banana thermite was used or not.

I don't have a clue as to what that is supposed to mean. The red/gray chips of nanothermite that Harrit et al. photographed, analyzed and tested are not commonly found anywhere. One has to construct such nanothermite compounds from bottom up.

 

[dfnj]

WTC were steel framed structures and burned with thousands of gallons of jet fuel on the inside, weakening the steel.

Grenfell Tower was a far smaller structure made of just reinforced concrete, and the fire was just some plastic cladding up the exterior, which was not load bearing.

Not comparable at all.

You really have no clue what WTC 7 is?

 

[Nous]

No, I merely corrected your errors.

False. You haven't been able to cite any errors I've made on this thread. You're the one who has repeatedly stepped into stuff here, due primarily to not even having read the NIST report you linked to. Did you read it yet?