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Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The reason Jesus was one man. A teaching about all life with a human spiritual father. Our father.

The reasoning states his life as a baby man was saved whilst it was sacrificed as the adult as his sacrificed life was witnessed.

Why asking if it was witnessed is incorrect. Of course it was. He lived being sacrificed and it was witnessed as the witness to see a sacrificed life was lived. As the sacrifice existed saved to be suffered. Just as life still is.

Medical advice as. Statement no life should be sick. Human realisation.

A human example taught.

The occult nuclear science was evil.

As the one to twelve time counting of a day is fake reasoning as light day was constant. No counting about relativity as light is constant. Constant in the vacuum.

The coercion that a day was just twelve hours. The day never ended except once. The day stopped. An example. Day went dark ore prophecised to claim science predicted...science caused it.

The proof.

Just as they said the hot UFO would return in a thousand years again. Second time and it did. The shroud the proof. Science knew it was wrong.

As science did counting about their use in conversion as a science constant that science never owned. Space womb did. The Twelve status said science was proven to have destroyed the Twelve spirit body of light that the one God earth supported.

As timed following. So multi men were witnessed harmed. Why it was proved true by a data review of a gathered human group who proved it real.

By their human attacks.

The teaching.

A teaching.

The status human suffering.

Proven science caused. Why it was proven.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
So Peter and Paul: no historical data, just church writings written min. 100 years later.

Other 10: no information or traditions.

So Skywalker, how do you state as fact deaths for which at best there is just oral tradition and at worst there no information, at all?

Which apostles have no information or traditions regarding if they were persecuted?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I don’t see any good reason to believe that, especially because Bible doesn’t say Jesus is the one true God.

The Bible says that Jesus is God. Six Reasons Jesus Is God

1) The Direct Statements Of Scripture Affirm That Jesus Is God:
  • The opening verse of his (John's) gospel declares, "the Word (Jesus) was God." In John's gospel Jesus repeatedly assumed for Himself the divine name "I am" (cf. 4:26; 8:24; 28, 58; 13:9; 18:5, 6, 8). In John 10:30, He claimed to be one in nature and essence with the Father (that the unbelieving Jews recognized this as a claim to deity is clear from their reaction in v.33; cf. 5:18). Nor did Jesus correct Thomas when he addressed Him as "My Lord and my God!"(20:28); in fact, He praised him for his faith (v.29). Jesus' reaction is inexplicable if He were not God.
  • To the Philippians Paul wrote, "(Jesus) existed in the form of God," possessing absolute "equality with God" (Phil. 2:6). In Colossians 2:9 he declared, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." Romans 9:5 refers to Christ as "God blessed forever", Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 call Him "our God and Savior." God the Father addressed the Son as God in Hebrews 1:8: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom." In his first epistle John referred to Jesus Christ as "the true God" (1 John 5:20).
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
A book written by a human living on a fixed stone planet. Says stone never previously existed. It exists once only.

I will state O earth one God. The first entity of one.

My science products are all taken from the earth one body.

I claim science is the one form God.

Earth.

A planet.

No argument allowed.

Inside the heavens the man human science self lives as a human.

He says no man is God.

That man however wants the power of God in a reaction.

Today says I want God to be electricity by my say so

Yet none of the bodies of God are electricity.

The human mentality reasoned. Why human life assessed by science man due to science man was written.

Notice all about man as man invented science. How to change God. Not how to be God or own God. The machine wanted power from a changed God.

Not wanting anyone else to know true intention God earth natural planet as the assessed God you coerce.

Imagine radiation came through gases in space with no planet. What conditions would it own?

Changing the gases.

Exactly what you know as a scientist. The earth is not involved rationally with the heavens to infer a theory just about gases.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
"the Word (Jesus) was God."

But does the Bible say Jesus is the word?

“assumed for Himself the divine name "I am"”

Also Paul says “I am”. Jesus didn’t say “I am I am”, which would mean he is saying he is God.

"My Lord and my God!"

Bible tells God lives in Jesus also in disciples of Jesus. Where Jesus was, also God was, because God is in Jesus. That is why it can be said “my Lord and my God”, they both were there.

possessing absolute "equality with God"

Jesus himself says God is greater than him. If you think Jesus is God, why don’t you believe what he says?

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

I think people have misinterpreted Bible, if they think Jesus is the one and only true God, because Jesus himself says there is only one true God that is greater than him. And also, Paul says there is one God and Jesus is the mediator between God and men.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus could be said to be God in the same sense Moses was called God:

Yahweh said to Moses, "Behold, I have made you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
Ex. 7:1
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
But does the Bible say Jesus is the word?



Also Paul says “I am”. Jesus didn’t say “I am I am”, which would mean he is saying he is God.



Bible tells God lives in Jesus also in disciples of Jesus. Where Jesus was, also God was, because God is in Jesus. That is why it can be said “my Lord and my God”, they both were there.



Jesus himself says God is greater than him. If you think Jesus is God, why don’t you believe what he says?

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

I think people have misinterpreted Bible, if they think Jesus is the one and only true God, because Jesus himself says there is only one true God that is greater than him. And also, Paul says there is one God and Jesus is the mediator between God and men.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus could be said to be God in the same sense Moses was called God:

Yahweh said to Moses, "Behold, I have made you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
Ex. 7:1

John 1:1 says that Jesus is the Word. The divinity of Jesus is mentioned in the Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Have you heard of circular reasoning?

220px-Circular_reasoning.svg.png


"Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.

Other ways to express this are that there is no reason to accept the premises unless one already believes the conclusion, or that the premises provide no independent ground or evidence for the conclusion. Begging the question is closely related to circular reasoning, and in modern usage the two generally refer to the same thing.

The problem of circular reasoning has been noted in Western philosophy at least as far back as the Pyrrhonist philosopher Agrippa who includes the problem of circular reasoning among his Five Tropes of Agrippa. The Pyrrhonist philosopher Sextus Empiricus described the problem of circular reasoning as "the reciprocal trope":

The reciprocal trope occurs when what ought to be confirmatory of the object under investigation needs to be made convincing by the object under investigation; then, being unable to take either in order to establish the other, we suspend judgement about both."
Circular reasoning - Wikipedia
 
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Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Have you heard of circular reasoning?

220px-Circular_reasoning.svg.png

The beliefs used to support not believing in God are circular reasoning. Why Some People Simply Will Not Be Convinced | Cold Case Christianity

David Hume famously argued against miracles, on the basis that we humans have no “uniform experience” of such events. But if we start with a volitional presupposition against the miraculous, this willful foundation will prohibit us from any fair, rational inference from our observations. In other words, we know the experience against miracles to be “uniform” only if we accept all reports of miracles as false. And we know all reports to be false only if we begin from the position miracles have never occurred. In essence, our volitional resistance leads us to reason in a circle.

While you and I can do our best to present the evidence to our unbelieving friends, there is clearly a foundational, presuppositional problem in the heart of man. Our own desires and love of autonomy (our rebellion from God) typically stand in the way of our investigation. I am an evidentialist; I believe in the power of the evidence when presenting the case for God’s existence. But I know that God had to do something with my heart before I could see the evidence fairly, and no friend of mine could accomplish this with his or her evidential presentation. So as I share the case with my skeptical friends, I begin by praying God will remove their enmity so they can hear my words with clarity and interest. I know volitional and emotional resistance is often the reason some people will not be convinced.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
You want an atheist to accept God or miracles without any evidence? Then why you do not believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster? BE CONSISTENT.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
You want an atheist to accept God or miracles without any evidence? Then why you do not believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster? BE CONSISTENT.

There is evidence that God exists. Look around you. You don't see God, but you see his creation. The creation declares the glory of God. There are countless stars in the universe and you are here on earth. It can't be a coincidence.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
John 1:1 says that Jesus is the Word. The divinity of Jesus is mentioned in the Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Said and stated and written by men or a man.

Humans.

The word. Thinking. Speaking. A used human language who infers information as a male man. Penis owner to be quantified a man.

I will theory. Think for science about God the planet where I abstract the power energy Alchemy conversions from. O one God the earth.

The word about God as God for God.

Ask why the book was written?

We live inside the heavens. We don't live inside the human science stated one body of God as stone.

Volcanic mass does.

Science theories beginnings. As a human gas aware in heavens first. A conscious human thought about reason gases as spirit mass.

Said gases came out of the projection mountain volcano. Ejection as a false erection thesis God O earth in a sex act.

To conceive the spirit of a gas inside the space womb. Space womb immaculately transforms the gas into a rebirth by vacuum.

A science relative thought.

Lots of thoughts by words as a man thinking science.

Gave space a female inference.

False preaching as a human teaching.

Warning science began in word reference as a false preaching.

About the heavens gas spirit versus God one as stone products.

The teaching no man is God.
Jesus is not God.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
There is evidence that God exists. Look around you. You don't see God, but you see his creation. The creation declares the glory of God. There are countless stars in the universe and you are here on earth. It can't be a coincidence.
But it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster who created he universe, actually spat it out of his mouth. Of course, some people will say that it was Cthulhu, but they are wrong, they do not know.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
But it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster who created he universe, actually spat it out of his mouth. Of course, some people will say that it was Cthulhu, but they are wrong, they do not know.

Everyone believes in God deep down inside but people suppress that truth because they want to be their own God. There is so much evidence that Christ existed that since one can't deny it, so people will say he was a good man or a prophet. People reject having a relationship with God because it's convenient for their way of life. How is belief in God any different from Flying Spaghetti Monsterism? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "How is belief in God any different from Flying Spaghetti Monsterism?"

Answer:
Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (also known as Pastafarianism) is a “religion” created by a man named Bobby Henderson. Mr. Henderson created this satire in protest of the Kansas State Board of Education’s decision to teach intelligent design as an alternative to the theory of evolution. In essence, he was asking, “If foolish religious ideas like that of Intelligent Design have to be given equal time in high school biology classes, then why can’t other foolish religious ideas be taught alongside with it?” So, in protest, he made up a silly set of religious beliefs and demanded that they be given equal time in biology classes alongside the theories of evolution and Intelligent Design. His point seems to be that to teach Intelligent Design in schools is as absurd as teaching that the Flying Spaghetti Monster made the world and deceived scientists into believing evolution. (Note: Flying Spaghetti Monsterism is simply a new, and more entertaining, variation of Russell’s teapot and the Invisible Pink Unicorn.)

The line of reasoning for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism seems to be that
1. There is no evidence for the existence of the Judeo-Christian God.
2. There is no evidence for the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
3. Therefore, belief in the Judeo-Christian God and belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster are on equal epistemic grounds.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
No, I do not believe in existence of God. Jesus as per my view was a Jewish rebel like others in his time and was eliminated by the Jewish establishment. Apart from that, all that is written about Jesus is unsupported. I do not know if he was a good man or bad. And being an atheist, I do not believe in superstitions like prophecy.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No, I do not believe in existence of God. Jesus as per my view was a Jewish rebel like others in his time and was eliminated by the Jewish establishment. Apart from that, all that is written about Jesus is unsupported. I do not know if he was a good man or bad. And being an atheist, I do not believe in superstitions like prophecy.

Jesus is mentioned outside of the Bible by historians. A List Of Extra-Biblical Sources For The Historical Jesus | Reasons for Jesus

1. Josephus Flavius (95 AD)
Perhaps the earliest non-Biblical account of Jesus comes from the 1st century historian Josephus Flavius. The Gospel of John, our latest Gospel coming in at +- 60 years after Jesus death (30 AD) comes very close to Flavius’ account. Nevertheless, this great Jewish writer from the 1st century attests to an important fact that James, the brother of Jesus, was martyred. In his work Antiquities 20 v.9, we read:

“…and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned”.

Now, before we look at the next reference we should note that the above reference to Jesus’ brother is, according to the world’s leading Josephus Flavius scholar, Louis Feldman “almost universally acknowledged”, and thus beyond dispute. Here we have a legitimate reference to the historical Jesus and his brother.

Now, the other reference we find in the Testimonium Flavium. Scholars have rightfully noted that the reference to Jesus in the text is suspicious since it mentions Jesus in a way that a Jew of the likes of Josephus, who was particularly unsympathetic towards Jesus or early Christianity, would never mention him. It is as if Josephus exalts Jesus more than he should, and the result is that scholars have questioned its authenticity, and thus concluded that it is a Christian interpolation.

However, scholars unanimously agree that Josephus did mention Jesus in the original before altered copy. But fortunately scholars have managed to reconstruct what they think the original writing of the Testionium Flavium actually looked and read like, they suggest the following:

“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and many of Greek origin. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

According to another authoritative Jewish scholar, by the name of Geza Vermes, the reconstructed edition of the Testimonium provides Josephus’ authentic portrayal of Jesus, depicting him as a wise teacher and miracle worker with an enthusiastic group of followers who remained faithful to him after his crucifixion by Pilate, up to the time of Josephus. According to scholar Michael Bird “Authors like Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius and Tacitus from the late first and early second century wrote about Jesus too… [which] sounds pretty early to me, as least in comparison to other historical figures.” So, what facts can we get about Jesus from these two references?

We find that Jesus lived in the first century, that he was an allegedly wise man, that he was a teacher and did startling and unusual deeds, that men believed that he taught the truth, that he gained a following of many Jews and many Greeks, that Pontius Pilate condemned him to the cross, that some were loyal to him and never forsook him, and that from him Christianity branched out and amassed a large following. That’s at least 8 facts, most of which are reported and confirmed within the New Testament.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
"Nearly all historians accept that Jesus existed, and standard historical criteria have aided in reconstructing his life. Scholars differ on the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels .." Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia
 
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