Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[night912]

That isn't the same thing as a virginal conception.

Duh. What part of "miracle" don't you understand?

 

[Skywalker]

Yea, just like how your God impregnated Mary, through miraculously impregnation. The only difference is that the miracle was performed differently. How do you think a human woman get pregnant?

Sex Education 101
Mommy + daddy + sex = child

Supernatural Sex Education 101
Mommy + god daddy + miracle sex = god child

You can Google for the details.

Dionysus was not part of the Trinity he was just a descendant of a Greek god and a woman. Jesus of Nazareth—god or demigod?

Jesus does not belong to a polytheistic pantheon. He is not one deity among many. He is not the Son of God in the way Thor is the son of Odin or Athena the daughter of Zeus. The mythological divinity of Jesus was ruled out by the Council of Nicaea, which confessed him “the Son of God, the only-begotten begotten from the Father, that is from the substance of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, with the Father, through whom all things came to be.” As eternal Son, Christ perfectly possesses the divine nature of the Father who generated him. His deity is derived yet identical in glory and essence. All attributes of his Father are properly predicated of him, except Fatherhood. The upper-case is critical: we confess Jesus God, not a god. The Church’s doctrine of the Holy Trinity may be perplexing, even confounding, but it clearly intends to distinguish the confession of Christ from all expressions of pagan mythology.

 

[Skywalker]

Duh. What part of "miracle" don't you understand?

Regardless of what superficial details might be similar, the writings about Jesus in the Bible differ from the details of pagan gods. Jesus of Nazareth—god or demigod?

Nor is Jesus a hybrid being, standing alongside the likes of Hercules, Theseus, Achilles, Cú Chulainn, Arjuna, and Wonder Woman. We hear no stories of the Nazarene killing fabulous beasts like the Minotaur or stealing magical artifacts like the belt of Hippolyta. By the power of the Spirit, he accomplishes miracles according to the will of the Father, yet he does not have superpowers nor wield magical forces. He does not jump tall buildings in a single bound; he does not run faster than a speeding bullet. Demigodhood was ruled out by the Fourth Ecumenical Council:

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Jesus was talking to the disciples about defending themselves from robbers. They were in the wilderness.[/QUOTE]
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Contradiction.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Conversation seems to be going around in circles.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus was talking to the disciples about defending themselves from robbers. They were in the wilderness.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Contradiction.[/QUOTE]

Jesus telling the disciples to arm themselves was about common sense. It doesn't contradict Jesus being the Prince of Peace.

 

[Skywalker]

Well, there's your key word, "Interpretation". When we read a fact, 2+2 = 4 we don't "interpret" it, it's just a fact. When a million people read the scriptures we can hear a million different interpretations of the same words. Some are totally contradictory to one another. Jesus advising his disciples to buy a sword

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

Is Jesus advising them to murder, to

And there's that deadly word, "interpretation" which gives license to 1.2 billion Christians to interpret the Bible anyway they choose. The Bible was used to justify the slaughter of millions of pagans by the RCC throughout its bloody reign. Jesus told his disciples to go buy a sword. When they said they ad two, Jesus replied it was sufficient.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. Luke 22-36-38

A strange saying for someone who out of one side of his mouth encourages violence and out of the other side of his mouth extolls, "Turn the other cheek". This passage has been "interpreted" six ways to Sunday. So which one is correct? Point is, there IS no correct way. The Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean. Fine holy book. Nothing holy about it, just a confusing mess.

How does that verse make the Jewish interpretation of who the Messiah is more likely?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Jesus was talking to the disciples about defending themselves from robbers. They were in the wilderness.[/QUOTE]
God can protect them.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus was talking to the disciples about defending themselves from robbers. They were in the wilderness.

God can protect them.[/QUOTE]

What does that have to do with the Christian interpretation of the second coming being less likely than the Jewish? Jewish expectations of the Messiah at the time were related to their opinions that weren't in the Bible.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

What does that have to do with the Christian interpretation of the second coming being less likely than the Jewish? Jewish expectations of the Messiah at the time were related to their opinions that weren't in the Bible.

I'm saying they didn't need the swords. God would protect them. They're Jesus' chosen, aren't they? Why would god allow harm to come to them? Doesn't make a bit of sense--like this whole conversation. Bye.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm saying they didn't need the swords. God would protect them. They're Jesus' chosen, aren't they? Why would allow harm to come to them? Doesn't make a bit of sense--like this whole conversation. Bye.

The verses about the disciples and swords existed after people were questioning the messianic prophecies.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Why didn't God leave behind a huge trove of secular evidence for Jesus having lived on earth, dying on the cross and all the supernatural events accompanying the crucifixion like dead bodies rising from the grave and walking around Jerusalem? If God really wanted us all to believe Jesus is His son who was born into this world for the sole purpose of dying for our sins--and that it was absolutely vital for us to believe Jesus died for our sins in order for God to keep from having to send us to hell for not believing in him, then wouldn't He have done everything in His power to leave behind secular evidence so overwhelming that only a fool or a madman would deny Jesus was divine? Wouldn't God have made sure that every historian in Jesus' time had heard of or witnessed Jesus' death and resurrection and ascension and then written about it? Wouldn't God have made sure that these accounts were perfectly preserved like Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars? Wouldn't God have made absolutely certain that the original gospel accounts from the apostles had been perfectly preserved for future generations so that we had first-hand testimony of what Jesus said and did?

Why instead did God allow whatever might have been written about Jesus by a known historian to be completely lost or destroyed? Why did 50-100 years have to transpire before someone finally decided to write the gospels, and these weren't even from eyewitnesses--they were Greek Christian scholars writing in perfect Koine Greek? And if they had no eyewitnesses or written testimonies to get their information from then how did they know the incredible minute details that appear in their accounts? How, for example did Luke know that an angel appeared to Jesus to comfort him in the Garden of Gethsemane when there were no witnesses to this miraculous event? Further, no manuscripts of any of the New Testament writings surface until the middle/late part of the 2nd Century. Why is that if God was divinely guiding the transmission of information about Jesus?

I can' seem to find answers for these questions that constantly pop into my mind. I lost my Christian faith because of the complete lack of evidence for Jesus outside the Bible.

God chose to reveal Himself through the Bible. He chose to have His word recorded in a way that would sound foolish to unbelievers.
There are many scriptures which speak about God deliberately hiding the truth from unbelievers. The Bible says that the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing.

In 1 John 5:10 the Bible makes it clear that only believers will understand what God has revealed about Himself. God chose to reveal the truth to some and hide it from others.

The vast majority of Christians never had the opportunity to study the Bible, so they just believed in God with blind faith. The Bible wasn't available to the public until the 16th century, so Christians had very little information to go on before that time.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

This is what Total hyper-Calvinism says, that God, being the Supreme ruler of the universe, can pick and choose who He wants to save and who He wants to send to hell. Doesn't matter that the not-chosen were never given the Holy Spirit to believe, it was purely God's prerogative to not choose them. Paul said this in Romans 9:20:

"But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "

Seems like a pretty rotten thing for God to do to people that He claims to love, but then hyper-Calvinism says that God can love people even as He predestines them for eternal suffering in hell. Funny way to show love, if you ask me.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that God loves those He predestines for hell. Please let me know which scriptures teach this, I've never heard of this or found any scripture references to support it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God chose to reveal Himself through the Bible. He chose to have His word recorded in a way that would sound foolish to unbelievers.
There are many scriptures which speak about God deliberately hiding the truth from unbelievers. The Bible says that the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing.

In 1 John 5:10 the Bible makes it clear that only believers will understand what God has revealed about Himself. God chose to reveal the truth to some and hide it from others.

The vast majority of Christians never had the opportunity to study the Bible, so they just believed in God with blind faith. The Bible wasn't available to the public until the 16th century, so Christians had very little information to go on before that time.

It appears that you believe that God revealed himself to you. That raises a question. Did he do that or are you merely relying on circular reasoning and confirmation bias?

How would you properly test your beliefs?

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

It appears that you believe that God revealed himself to you. That raises a question. Did he do that or are you merely relying on circular reasoning and confirmation bias?

How would you properly test your beliefs?

Everything I have was given to me by God, I never had any beliefs or faith in any deity. I just lived as I pleased with no concern for any god.
God revealed Himself to me, while I wasn't looking for Him. I can't prove anything to anyone, as God is an invisible Spirit, so it's not as though i can show Him to others.

I don't need to test my beliefs, you only test something if you're not sure about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Everything I have was given to me by God, I never had any beliefs or faith in any deity. I just lived as I pleased with no concern for any god.
God revealed Himself to me, while I wasn't looking for Him. I can't prove anything to anyone, as God is an invisible Spirit, so it's not as though i can show Him to others.

I don't need to test my beliefs, you only test something if you're not sure about it.

Confirmation bias it is then.

Actually to know if your beliefs are correct they need to be tested. You do not know. All you have is mere belief. Just like the believer of any other religion. Tests are used if one wants to be sure that one's beliefs are correct. Yours are almost certainly wrong.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Confirmation bias it is then.

Actually to know if your beliefs are correct they need to be tested. You do not know. All you have is mere belief. Just like the believer of any other religion. Tests are used if one wants to be sure that one's beliefs are correct. Yours are almost certainly wrong.

I have put my beliefs to the ultimate test. The result was hundreds of positive results and not a single negative.

I'm not quite sure what kind of proof you're talking about but the best evidence I witnessed was when I was raised back to life after dying. I also witnessed God change me into an entirely different person to who I was before. I would be here for many hours listing all the miracles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have put my beliefs to the ultimate test. The result was hundreds of positive results and not a single negative.

I'm not quite sure what kind of proof you're talking about but the best evidence I witnessed was when I was raised back to life after dying. I also witnessed God change me into an entirely different person to who I was before. I would be here for many hours listing all the miracles.

What was your "ultimate test"? Most believers do not understand what a proper test is.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that God loves those He predestines for hell. Please let me know which scriptures teach this, I've never heard of this or found any scripture references to support it.

"For God so loved the [whole]world that he gave his only begotten etc." Doesn't that include everyone on earth? See, this is one of those thousands of doctrinal differences that pops up in any man-made religion--does God love the whole world or does He only love His elect and hates those he has predestined for hell. Doesn't make a bit of sense, but then when we're talking about the Christian faith what does??

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

It appears that you believe that God revealed himself to you. That raises a question. Did he do that or are you merely relying on circular reasoning and confirmation bias?

How would you properly test your beliefs?

You call thousands of contradiction in the Bible God's deliberate attempt to make it appear foolish to those he didn't want to understand the Bible. Sounds a bit foolish.