Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Skywalker]

It does not need to be "comparable". In fact it appears to be better. Only Christianity has God sacrificing himself to save others for sins that he caused in the first place and could not forgive people for until he "died". That is a mess that makes no sense.

Baal is not a Savior either. Is Jesus A Knock-Off Of Pagan Gods? 15 “Dying & Rising” Pagan Savior Gods Debunked | Reasons for Jesus

Smith, seemingly with mythicists in mind, writes: “…any attempt to render a reconstruction of Baal’s death and return to life should make no assumption about the nature of the latter.” After extended analysis Smith connects the story to the succession of the Ugaritic kingship, with Baal’s death representing the demise of the king and his return to life representing the role of the living king.

 

[Skywalker]

Nope, that is an unjustified conclusion.

A puppy can love his owner. A robot cannot.

 

[Skywalker]

So what? An unfair test is a set up. God screwed up. He was the one with the faulty design according to the myth. Haven't you read it?

It's like if Jesus didn't suffer on the cross for our sins, the value of redemption wouldn't exist.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's like if Jesus didn't suffer on the cross for our sins, the value of redemption wouldn't exist.

That is another huge flaw with Christianity. You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A puppy can love his owner. A robot cannot.

A true "So what?" argument. You might as well own up to the fact that you are wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Baal is not a Savior either. Is Jesus A Knock-Off Of Pagan Gods? 15 “Dying & Rising” Pagan Savior Gods Debunked | Reasons for Jesus

Thank you for admitting that you are wrong by using a lying source.

 

[Skywalker]

A true "So what?" argument. You might as well own up to the fact that you are wrong.

Can a robot truly love its owner? There's no what's it like to be a robot.

 

[Skywalker]

Thank you for admitting that you are wrong by using a lying source.

Baal dying and returning to life had to do with the role of a living king, not a Savior. The concept of the holiness of God didn't exist in the religion of Baal. It was a religion of rituals.

 

[Skywalker]

That is another huge flaw with Christianity. You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

What would be the meaning of Jesus taking our place on the cross if he didn't also suffer on the cross?

 

[Skywalker]

That is another huge flaw with Christianity. You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

Not agreeing with the belief of redemption is a different issue from it making sense that Jesus would die to redeem us without suffering.

The belief of redemption also lines up with laws about crimes having consequences. Our sins separate us from God. We cannot stand in the presence of a holy God with our sins not being covered.

 

[Skywalker]

Thank you for admitting that you are wrong by using a lying source.

There is no text within the religion of Baal that mentions Baal being a Savior.

 

[Skywalker]

I did not claim Zoroastrianism in particular. In fact that appears to be more of a case of gospel writers just following the general formula for a god that comes to save people. But we do know that the Noah's Ark myth is copied from older stories.

Christianity is unique in its belief about God coming to save people. Osiris didn't die on the cross for his creation. Jesus dying on the cross was the deepest expression of love that he had for his creation.

 

[Skywalker]

And if he didn't as the evidence seems to indicate?

The Psalms reflected the troubles of David mentioned throughout the Bible. Why do many of the psalms of David sound so sad? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "Why do many of the psalms of David sound so sad?"

Answer: Many of the psalms are what are called “psalms of lament.” These songs include themes related to sadness, discouragement, and even complaints to God. Why were these sad psalms included in the Bible? Isn’t God’s Word supposed to encourage us?

First, as a book of songs, Psalms includes the full range of human emotions. Many of the psalms are songs of joy and thanksgiving. Others are indeed sad, expressing the inevitable sorrow faced in human life. Psalm 6:6–7 expresses a deeply felt grief: “I am worn out from my groaning. / All night long I flood my bed with weeping / and drench my couch with tears. / My eyes grow weak with sorrow; / they fail because of all my foes.” David sometimes felt as though God had abandoned him: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? / Why are you so far from saving me, / so far from my cries of anguish? / My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, / by night, but I find no rest” (Psalm 22:1–2). This particular psalm was prophetic, pointing us to the emotions that Christ felt on the cross (cf. Mark 15:34).

Second, songs of lament were sometimes used in repentance. Psalm 51:1–2 is set in the context of David’s repentance following his adultery with Bathsheba. David says, “Have mercy on me, O God, / according to your unfailing love; / according to your great compassion / blot out my transgressions. / Wash away all my iniquity / and cleanse me from my sin.” At the same time, David expresses his honest feeling that his bones have been “crushed” (verse 8) and he cannot shake his guilt on his own (verse 3).

Third, many psalms of lament follow a specific outline ending with an expression of trust in the Lord. The traditional pattern is 1) opening address, 2) complaint, 3) request, and 4) expression of trust. All of these elements can be seen in Psalm 2. The psalmist addresses God, offers his complaint, asks for the Lord’s help, and then leaves himself at the mercy of God for a response. These psalms, though sad in parts, should encourage us that “weeping may stay for the night, / but rejoicing comes in the morning” (Psalm 30:5).

Some who have studied the book of Psalms have observed that the kinds of complaints found in the psalms of lament fall into three categories: 1) concerns with the psalmist’s life or actions, 2) concerns with an enemy, or 3) concerns with God’s actions or inactions.

For example, in Psalm 22 the psalmist is concerned with God’s apparent inaction. In Psalm 51, however, David’s concern is his own sin. At other times, the lament focuses on Israel’s enemies, wondering why God had allowed an opponent victory (Psalm 35).

While some psalms may be sad, not all are. In addition, the psalms of lament show the human condition expressed in poetic form. In reading the Psalms, we readily identify with the reality of human emotions and look to the Lord for help during times of need (Psalm 46:1).

 

[Skywalker]

It does not need to be "comparable". In fact it appears to be better. Only Christianity has God sacrificing himself to save others for sins that he caused in the first place and could not forgive people for until he "died". That is a mess that makes no sense.

Pagan gods did not sacrifice themselves to save us from our own destruction. God can't just forgive us because that would be an insult to holiness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Psalms reflected the troubles of David mentioned throughout the Bible. Why do many of the psalms of David sound so sad? | GotQuestions.org

You just admitted that you are wrong!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Pagan gods did not sacrifice themselves to save us from our own destruction. God can't just forgive us because that would be an insult to holiness.

They didn't need to. They were smarter than that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Christianity is unique in its belief about God coming to save people. Osiris didn't die on the cross for his creation. Jesus dying on the cross was the deepest expression of love that he had for his creation.

Yes, too bad that you do not understand that that is not a good thing.

 

[joelr]

The idea of Jesus being a Savior makes him distinct from Osiris. In Ancient Egyptian mythology there wasn't an exact equivalent of the concept that sin separates us from God.

Really? Show me a link to where you are studying Egyptian mythology?

Judaism was obsessed with sin and original sin. So when they took the savior god myths for them sin was a much bigger part of the story. Your little points about how each religion had small changes is completely irrelevant. People did not go to heaven in Judaism. They did not go to hell or have Satan at was with God. There was no resurrection for all good members at the end of the world where sinners burn up and many many other things. Judiasm is a mythology and it added other myths during the 2ndtemple period.
What changes they did or did not make doesn't mean anything.

West Side Story is a remake of Romeo and Juliet. You could argue about the differences all day and it still doesn't change the fact that the writers wanted to write an updated version of the story and borrowed the fiction and created a modern version. Movies, books and religion are all made-up stories.

But Hinduism has sin?

"

The way to cancel your sins in Hinduism

All the punishments are only for reformation of the soul and not for revenge. The hell is created by God not with vengeance against sinners but due to kindness to reform the souls. God is always kind to reform the souls, which are His children since the souls are created by Him.
"

 

[joelr]

What in the Old Testament do you think was based off of Zoroastrianism?

Go to 5:10 and the scholar gives a basic overview of what was taken by Jewish scribes.

 

[joelr]

Even if there were parts of Psalms that David didn't write, that doesn't mean that the Psalms were influenced by Babylonian captivity.

Heaven in the OT is not the modern version where all good members go. It was he place where God dwelled:

"There is almost no mention in the Hebrew Bible of Heaven as a possible afterlife destination for human beings, who are instead described as "resting" in Sheol (Genesis 25:7–9, Deuteronomy 34:6, 1 Kings 2:10)."

The heaven taken from the Persians is the modern version where all souls go. Just like the modern version of Satan as an eternal enemy of God was taken from them. As well as monotheism. Professor Fransesca Stravopolou explains in that video I linked to that during the Persian invasion Judaism was re-tooled to become monotheistic and the past invasions of Israel was blamed on being polytheistic.




"It is generally believed by scholars that the ancient Iranian prophet Zarathustra (known in Persian as Zartosht and Greek as Zoroaster) lived sometime between 1500 and 1000 BC. Prior to Zarathustra, the ancient Persians worshipped the deities of the old Irano-Aryan religion, a counterpart to the Indo-Aryan religion that would come to be known as Hinduism. Zarathustra, however, condemned this practice, and preached that God alone – Ahura Mazda, the Lord of Wisdom – should be worshipped. In doing so, he not only contributed to the great divide between the Iranian and Indian Aryans, but arguably introduced to mankind its first monotheistic faith."

The idea of a single god was not the only essentially Zoroastrian tenet to find its way into other major faiths, most notably the ‘big three’: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The concepts of Heaven and Hell, Judgment Day and the final revelation of the world, and angels and demons all originated in the teachings of Zarathustra, as well as the later canon of Zoroastrian literature they inspired. Even the idea of Satan is a fundamentally Zoroastrian one; in fact, the entire faith of Zoroastrianism is predicated on the struggle between God and the forces of goodness and light (represented by the Holy Spirit, Spenta Manyu) and Ahriman, who presides over the forces of darkness and evil. While man has to choose to which side he belongs, the religion teaches that ultimately, God will prevail, and even those condemned to hellfire will enjoy the blessings of Paradise (an Old Persian word).
How did Zoroastrian ideas find their way into the Abrahamic faiths and elsewhere? According to scholars, many of these concepts were introduced to the Jews of Babylon upon being liberated by the Persian emperor Cyrus the Great. They trickled into mainstream Jewish thought,